Dec. 10, 2007 - need renovation stories / a reader writes for help

how far could $150/ft go?
A faithful reader wrote in off-line asking for help in ball-parking the potential renovation expense in buying a loft that would need a lot of work.

More precisely, he said:

I have mostly been looking at recently refurbished apartments, but have recently expanded my search to include apartments that would require either partial or full renovations. Like everyone, I like nice finishes, but my tastes are not extravagant. I think the finishes on this apartment are about what I would be looking for - certainly nice, but not over the top. http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1041451. [that is #3A at 16 Hudson Street]

Based on your experience, could you tell me what range of cost I could expect to gut renovate a traditional loft in Tribeca? Do you think it would be possible to do nicely (but once again, not extravagantly) for $150 / sq. ft. for a 1750 sq. ft. loft ($250K in total)? Kitchen, two bathrooms, central air, etc.

Also, if you have any architects whose work you really recommend for something like this, I'd be grateful for the recommendation.

My response (below) won't be as helpful to him as Actual Information from Actual Loft Renovators. Anyone care to share facts about what they spent on a renovation, or what they were quoted?

I told him: "Short story is that you *can* do a renovation for a buck and a half per foot, *depending*…. The quotes I have seen for installing central air (assuming it is do-able at all, and the compressor doesn't have to go on the roof) were less than $50k for less than 2,000 sq ft. I find that kitchens are often easier (cheaper) than baths - that's where The Big Money will go. The rest is cosmetics, up to the limit of your budget, with built-ins and fancy stuff if there's room."

And I gave him the contacts for 2 loft architects I know.


(C) Sandy Mattingly 2007

Dec. 10, 2007 - RE: need renovation stories / a reader writes for help

I finished a couple of loft projects about 6 years ago (2001) that came in at around $140-$150/sq.ft. but we did not put central air into either of those jobs... Both of those jobs were gut renovations. (I am an architect)

If you could boost your budget to around $200/sq.ft. that would be more realistic in today's market. Or see if you can do less than a total gut - maybe some things can be fixed up rather than replaced - for example can the floors be refinished?, can you replace the existing bathroom fixtures on the existing rough-ins rather than gutting the bathrooms? and so on.

Some of the budget items will depend on the condition of the loft you buy - for example does the loft have enough power as is or do you have to upgrade the power? Are the walls is good shape? or do they need to be resurfaced?

When a budget gets to be too low then I find that the quality of contractor you will attract goes down pretty quickly.

Try to prioritize what is most important to you in the space - spend full price on the important items but compromise on the things that aren't as critical to you.

A Maddry

Dec. 12, 2007 - RE: need renovation stories / a reader writes for help

Going through one of these right now ... I thought it could be done for $130-150 but no way. Factor in $180-200 if you have no surprises (eg bad windows, power upgrade). Add 15-20% on top of that figure for the architect. And to get there, forget central AC (unless you can place a ductless unit out of sight) and think Ikea kitchen, refinish existing floors, etc.

Finishes, believe it or not, make very little difference unless you go really crazy. The difference between subway tiles and high end tiles will not kill you. It's the work that's exepensive. Skilled labor is required to do finish carpentery (libraries, built ins), plumbing, electrical work, etc. and they cost the most.

Unfortunately, very few architects will be willing to work with you for under $250 - a sum that will get you central AC, custom kitchen, and better finishes.Try looking for people who do work in Brooklyn but have some Manhattan experience.

And another thing to consider - work takes time. Figure 4-6 months to get plans and approvals, and another 5-7 months of work. Since you will have already paid for the loft, you will need to factor in the capital cost of about a year. At $1000/sq ft the carrying cost will probably add another $50-90 to the cost depending on the tax-deductibility of your funding, and maintenance.

You have to be realistic about these costs. Otherwise you could end up overbidding for that fixer upper.

Dec. 13, 2007 - RE: need renovation stories / a reader writes for help