Oct. 22, 2007 - the Tribeca premium, anticipated / a tale of 2 lofts
what a difference 40 blocks can make
I visited two lofts Sunday, both asking nearly $2.8mm, both over 2,500 sq ft, both designed with a minimalist sensibility -- but they could hardly be more different.
One has a lot of classic loft character but shows poorly empty, feels a bit beaten up (creaky floors, translucent room dividers that are a bit worn, quirkily narrow kitchen and baths that are nicely minimal but not deluxe) gets (only) reflected light in front and will lose much of its light in back (and all of it on the side). There is an obviously custom paint job (Venetian, waxed?) on the very long wall opposite the entry, kitchen and baths.
The other is done (and done beautifully), with so much light there is a window in the dressing room, a very large kitchen with top appliances and features, and 1,000 sq ft of private roof deck. There are several sliding doors of clouded glass doors. This is a classic loft, dressed tastefully for the party.
Yet these two lofts are offered at essentially the same prices. Because one is in Tribeca (though not prime TriBeCa) and the other is on East 30 Street. Switch the two unit addresses and the one will drop $400k or more in value, while the other would pick up $700k (if it could keep a private roof).
the Tribeca effect, indeed
my basic descriptions are from Sunday's open house reviews:
39 Worth Street #3E
$2.795mm and $2,161/mo for "2,560 sq ft" with a (minor?) celebrity angle ("Designed by internationally-renowned architect Richard Gluckman for the former style editor of The New York Times")
back on the market last week after a 2 month hiatus; for sale for two years (2 different firms; starting at $3.6mm)
[if my FCK editor corrupts the link, search Halstead's website for listing 1129599]
34 East 30 Street #PH-9
$2.775mm and $2,624/mo for "2,800 sq ft" plus "1,000 sq ft" private roof deck with 12 foot ceilings and 4 exposures
new this [past] week
[if my FCK editor corrupts the link, search Corcoran's website for listing 963192]
I don't see any sales at 39 Worth for four years, but even Worth Street gets a Tribeca premium. Problem for the owners of #3E is that they aimed way too high two years ago, and have not yet found the clearing price, some $800k later.
The 8th floor at 34 East 30 Street is a recent nearby sale (rather nearby!), but in a very different condition. It sold in July for $1.9375mm, off an ask of $1.995mm, but that one needed a lot (neither interior picture is a close-up; the description is "flexible floor plan; create your dream"). If you figure only $200/ft to convert a primitive space (such as the 8th floor) into a done space (such as the 9th floor), you are left with 1,000 sq ft of roof space and about $250k off the price of the 8th floor.
There are many examples of how prices reflect neighborhoods. Because I saw this particular pair in the same hour the difference was especially stark.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Comments (3) :: Post A Comment! :: Permanent Link
View more entries tagged with: Worth, East 30, Outdoor Space, Minimalism
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Oct. 23, 2007 - RE: the Tribeca premium, anticipated / a tale of 2 lofts |
| Posted by Loft Boy |
Hi,
I would love to get your thoughts/comparison/price check on the two lofts below:
284 5th Ave PHB @ 30th St Co-op
Ask $3mm / monthly $4.3k 60% tax ded.
2,000sf inside, 2,200sf outside
34 E. 30th Co-op
Ask $2.775 / monthly $2.6k 60% tax ded.
2,800sf inside, 1000sf outside
My opinion is the 284 5th is overpriced by approx. $750k, given that if 34 east is approx. $850sf for inside and $400sf for outdoor...then using those numbers 284 is approx. $2.58mm less $300k for the $2k more a month in maintenance...
so 284 5th should be about $2.3mm
What are your thoughts? |
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Oct. 23, 2007 - RE: the Tribeca premium, anticipated / a tale of 2 lofts |
| Posted by Sandy Mattingly |
You are reading my mind, Loft Boy, as I have been planning to get to see 284 Fifth Av at the open house tomorrow evening. With the *major* caution that I have not seen that one, I think there are significant differences between it and 34 E 30 in favor of 284 Fifth: (1) the terrace is right outside (not one flight up an interior stairwell), and (2) the indoors and outdoors at 284 Fifth look as though they flow, vastly increasing the sense of ‘space’.
The quality of the interiors may be roughly even (or, a matter of taste) between 34 E 30 and 284 Fifth, though 34 E 30 measures significantly larger. But the difference is the roof premium. The 34 E 30 roof is undeveloped, almost under the water tank, and – while private space – is part of a shared roof (or, it so appears to me). 284 Fifth is a whole different thing. I can see someone “over-paying” for the 284 Fifth terraces, but not the 34 E 30 roof.
284 Fifth is a true penthouse, with insiode and out integrated. 34 E 30 is 'just' a top floor unit with roof rights.
The major downside I see to 284 Fifth is the maintenance. This unit has to be the largest ‘taxpayer’ in the building by far, plus that is a ton of maintenance for a no-doorman no-amenities building.
Have you seen both?
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Oct. 23, 2007 - RE: the Tribeca premium, anticipated / a tale of 2 lofts |
| Posted by Loft Boy |
Mr. Mattingly,
I have only seen 284, and the finishes are top notch (better than 99% of new construction) and the flow to the outdoor space is as good as it gets, but...
Monthly nut is HIGH
No ammenities
Building in sore need of upgrade to lobby, elevators, pointing and I assume guts as well
I have not seen the financials, but if any renovations are planned and an assesment is needed, the monthly's could be $5k+ per month for years
Hood is not much to speak of, especially to the west on Broadway which is just disgusting and there is not usable retail on any of the side streets unless you are looking for cheap wholesale handbags
As such, if this was in Prime Chelsea or Flatiron, I would put it at $4mm easy and well worth it, but given the above I can not see this at more than ~$2.3mm
And to note, the owner paid $1.25mm for the space before renovations |
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