selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other : Manhattan Loft Guy

Manhattan Loft Guy

Dec. 13, 2006 - selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

huge range of (truly) special options west of Fifth on 17 St

I have seen three very different lofts almost on top of each other in three very different buildings on 17^th St b/w Fifth and Sixth in the last two weeks.

one little area on West 17 St is for sale

The original owners of 12 West 17 St #5 made an unusual choice. It appears that when the building was converted to coop (early 1980s?) the walls and ceiling had various stains, were peeling, and otherwise showed their age and commercial usage (it was built in 1925). Instead of totally cleaning and repainting (or covering the ‘weathered’ surfaces), the original owner cleaned enough to put a poly finish on the walls and ceilings, preserving the look without endangering anyone’s health or having paint chips peel away.

patina is in the eye of the beholder

The result is the “patina’ described in the agent’s description and in the photographs that do not do justice to how nice this looks. Clearly, it is not for everyone but it is an interesting look (a bit dark, but pleasing to this eye).

Subsequent owners have respected this choice, so that original look appeals to this day. Otherwise, this is a long-and-narrow floor-through loft (with windows along one long wall) that is pretty dated – not that there’s anything wrong with that. If you like the look, you like the look.

This is a pretty “classic” loft, in other words. They say it is 2,400 sq ft, asking $2.7mm for the last 18 months.

you like nice + new + clean + done?

Across the street at 15 W 17 St, the owners of a former factory building that was converted into rentals about six years ago are now converting floors 2 – 11 into floor-through lofts. The footprint is very similar to 12 W 17 St across the street (long-and-narrow) but the lower floors have windows only front and back, as the side windows begin at the 6^th floor.

One interesting developer’s choice here is that the built-out layouts are a little different from floor to floor. Each floor is said to be 2,221 sq ft and prices range from $2.425mm to $2.975mm. Click here for the 2d floor info and here for the 9^th floor. The units are finished with the standard-for-the-price ‘high end’ appliances and finishes.

This is a pretty standard “new” loft in an old building, in other words.

or do you want to start from before scratch?

Next door is 17 W 17^th St where the 3rd floor is for sale. This is a completely different loft property at a similar price point ($2.9mm). This is 4,600 sq ft of “pre-raw” space, as it is currently a working tool-and-die business that will be sold and relocated. So it is set up with two small offices, one bathroom and all the indicia of the current use for a tool-and-die firm.

This is a total gut renovation with four plumbing risers in the floor plan with the major limitation that the light is very good in the front and very bad in the rear. At $2.9mm for 4,600 sq ft it is rather a ‘special’ opportunity. It is marketed as though conversion to a legal residence is a simple process.

This is a pretty standard gut renovation job, in other words.

it’s a wonderful world

This is a terrific microcosm of the Manhattan loft world, which you can tour within a very small distance. Fascinating (to me; maybe to you). 'Course it ain't cheap....

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Feb. 3, 2007 - re: selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

Posted by jess

Would be curious as to your thoughts on the retail tenant of the lofts at 15 West 17th Street. A friend and I went to see the lofts and noticed that the ground floor tenant was a place called Heaven Spa. A quick google search showed that this was a "spa" staffed by Asian women catering to men. It closes at 1 AM in the morning. Not sure if a buyer would want to spend over $2 million and have a tenant such as "Heaven Spa" on the ground floor. Thoughts?

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Feb. 3, 2007 - re: selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

Posted by Sandy Mattingly

hmmmmm … that’s a tough one, Jess.

I don’t now whether the Heaven Spa at 15 W 17 St is legit or illicit, but here are a few things that occur to me.

The ground floor commercial space may or may not be part of the legal condominium association, but even if separately owned there will be some legal document governing the relationship between the ground floor and the rest of the building. Anyone who is (a) serious about buying a condo here and (b) concerned about this tenant can inquire about the arrangement, who the owner is, and the terms of the rental. (Some of this should be referred to in the condo declaration.)

Certainly if you are concerned as potential buyer you can express that to Charles Hawkins at Halstead, who is representing the sponsor in the sale of the residential condo units. If it appears to the sponsor that buyers may take this seriously, the sponsor *may* be inclined to provide more information than mere boilerplate – particularly if it appears to hit his or her pocketbook.

Check in at the 13th Precinct to see if they have had any complaints.

Everyone will have an individual response to the possibility of living over an illicit business, but for some people it may come down to how obvious a problem it is. I found out that I lived across the street from a whore house some years ago only when the doors were padlocked and stickered as shut by the cops. Conversation revealed that the doormen on the block all knew it was there (fourth floor of a commercial building on a loft block) but the residents were ignorant. So I can’t say that it bothered many people.

If it becomes so obvious as to be evident to condo residents, chances are that the cops will be responsive to complaints (and may already be investigating). Not to cast this in purely mercantile terms, but the spa itself should be highly motivated to maintain a legitimate front (again – I do not know whether they are legit or illicit), which should prevent problems with appearances.

Can’t remember the name right now, but I believe there is a “gentlemen’s club” on a loft block on East 21 St in the Flatiron area, quite close to some high-priced coop and condo properties. While some people may reject such a block out of hand, the practical truth is that there are many, many potential uses and businesses that can impact the quality of one’s residential life or the value of one’s apartment. Each person will make up his or her own mind on what to tolerate.

Please let me know if you learn more. THX for stopping by, Jess.

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Dec. 13, 2006 - selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

Feb. 3, 2007 - re: selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

Feb. 3, 2007 - re: selling West 17th St / 3 very different lofts almost on top of each other

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