Jan. 8, 2008 - 74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money
yes, location-location-location, but work-work-work
#8A at 74 Fifth Avenue is back on the market this morning at a new and improved price, perhaps getting this bring-your-architect project closer to a buyer. They are now asking $2.595mm and $2,234/mo for “2,400 sq ft” with the “potential to be a showcase apartment”.
Like 57 Bond Street yesterday, this listing took some time off for the holidays (less than 3 weeks in this case) but – unlike 57 Bond – came back at a reduced price. This was first offered last year in April at $2.85mm, before dropping to $2.75mm in September and holding there until mid-December.
The real story here is the reaction of The Market to having to renovate this place, but it will take me a while (below) to explain that story.
many walls to come down
#8A has a terrific corner footprint, with 5 windows east and 4 south. What is interesting to me is that it is marketed as a bring-your-architect, though the space is fully built out and does not look (in the pix) all that badly in need of renovation. But as you toggle between the pictures and the floor plan you begin to understand that the current interior arrangement is both choppy and awkward.
So rather than present this to buyers as potentially in move-in condition, buyers are conditioned by the listing description to ignore the fact that one enters the loft by the kitchen, then walks around the kitchen into the dining room in order to get to the living area or the second or third bedrooms, and then continues going around the kitchen to get to the master bedroom. Then there’s that piece between the dining and living rooms, presumably anchored on a structural column hidden In the wall. Then there’s the number of rooms … I wonder if the space got broken up as the seller’s family grew….
If it had been marketed as a replace-the-kitchen-but-otherwise-move-in-condition loft, nearly everyone would be disappointed by the layout. “Bring your architect” solves that marketing problem, though it has not found the buyer yet.
Recent building history helps to understand that problem.
contrast with #10A
The listing description for #10A is similar to #8A in talking about the views, but it has a very different history and layout. It is likely that #10A’s experience has been very frustrating for #8A.
#10A came to market 2 months after #8A at $2.95mm ($100k more than #8A was at that time) and found a buyer within 3 weeks. (It closed in September, but I can’t find a price through city records, but the velocity suggests close to ask, or more.)
Obviously, #10A and #8A share the same corner footprint. They even share a high number of rooms (#10A is not only 3 bedrooms plus den, but has an office). The only difference I see in the listing descriptions is that #10A was sold as “move-in condition”, though without bragging about any finishes.
same (crowded) footprint, very different floor plans
If the formatting holds, the floor plan for #10A will be here. It looks to me to be the same footprint, though with one additional south window and the entry being in a different place than on the 8th floor (that one is on the PruDE site, as well as here). The flow of the two floor plans is completely different, with the 10th floor kitchen over on the south wall, rather than in the (functional) center of #8A.
wisdom of The Market?
Assuming that #10A got close to the $2.95mm asking price and that it is in move-in condition, #8A may still have a way to go before finding the buyer-with-architect-and-renovation-budget. With “2,400 sq ft” and a ballpark figure for renovation of $200/ft (see December 10 need renovation stories / a reader writes for help; THX again A Maddry!), #8A will be more expensive to buy-and-build at the current price than #10A was to buy.
caveat read-or
Keep in mind that I have not seen either of these lofts, and that the listing description (and pix) for #10A are no longer on Halstead’s site, since it is a closed sale. So things may not be exactly as they seem to me, reading the descriptions and between the lines.
But The reaction of The Market to these two listings – separated by two floors – suggests that I am on the right track here. If so, the #8A sellers made the difficult choice to present their home for sale as though it has to be ripped apart but they may not – yet – have appreciated the dollar value to potential buyers of all that potential. “Potential” ain’t cheap.
#10A implies a deeper discount yet for #8A. Fascinating. Does anyone who has seen one or both of these lofts have a comment??
© Sandy Mattingly 2008
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Comments (5) :: Post A Comment! :: Permanent Link
View more entries tagged with: Fifth, Renovation, Architect
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Jan. 8, 2008 - RE: 74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money |
| Posted by Lofty |
| Yes, saw them both. The finishes in 10A wouldn't blow you away, and certainly don't compare to new construction, but they didn't feel too tired either. Most of the people at the open house for 10 were families and you could see they all had visions of quickly utilizing all the rooms. 8A on the other hand needed these price reductions to become interesting (I saw it at 2.8). 8A has lots of "levels, Jerry, levels" which makes you wonder how many pipes are under there and whether even your architect could save you from the mess. Across the street is the New School addition I believe, so no telling what that's going to do to your views in the next few years. I think you are right-on that a steeper discount is going to be required for 8A to move. |
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Jan. 8, 2008 - RE: 74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money |
| Posted by Sandy Mattingly |
Happy new year, Lofty!
THX for the eyeball commentary about the differences, after having seen both #8A and #10A. With the bring-your-architect come on, no one will go to #8A expecting to move right in -- which cuts down the pool of interested buyers quite a bit.
Funny, but I don't see the different levels in #8A's pix or floor plan, though I do for #10A on the floor plan. As you say, another complicating factor.
I did not get your levels/Jerry comment at first (I was not a big fan) but you gave me enough of a hint to find this "in all the pictures I saw of immigrants on boats coming into New York harbor, I never saw one of them sitting on a pony". |
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Jan. 8, 2008 - RE: 74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money |
| Posted by jess |
New School addition is targeted to be finished by late 2011, supposedly a "new 500,000 square feet academic building at 65 Fifth Avenue", 8A still has some room to go down.
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Feb. 26, 2008 - RE: 74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money |
| Posted by jess |
Just came across this:
BOB KERREY TO HOST COMMUNITY MEETING ON PROPOSED DESIGNS FOR 65 FIFTH AVENUE BUILDING
President Bob Kerrey and The New School will host a meeting for the community on Thursday, March 13, at 6:00 p.m., in Tishman Auditorium, located at Alvin Johnson/J.M.Kaplan Hall, 66 West 12th Street.
The architectural firm of Skidmore, Owings and Merrill LLP and Roger Duffy will present information about the proposed designs for the new academic building at 65 Fifth Avenue. At this meeting plans for the building will be discussed. All are invited to attend. |
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