Elance, Rent-a-Coder, Freelancer, and other Freelancing sites are Terrible

I agree with John Reilly; this thread is actually boring at this point. Let's move on, please.

Bruce,

If by "doing something like this" you mean hiring a coder via an online freelancing site, then this isn't the first time I've tried to accomplish this task. However, this was the first time I successfully completed the process from start to finish and ended up getting projects completed utilizing this process.

For my first project, I did not quote any sort of a set budget, I just specified what I needed done. The lowest bid I received from any US company or programmer was $580, the gentleman from Ireland whom ended up being granted the project completed it for $275.

For my second project I specified that I wanted to keep my budget under $300. I received quotes from US companies and programmers ranging from $450 to well over $1500. The programmer from Tibet that I hired charged me $109.

In both of these cases, the bidder that was eventually awarded the job had a number of successful projects under their belt (nine for the first hire, sixteen for the second hire) and they also both had repeat client business attributed to them (roughly one third for each). Again, as I mentioned before, I think these two things are important when trying to procure services using this sort of a web site. When a vendor can show that they have not only satisfied customers but also repeat satisfied customers, that says a lot to me. I personally feel that this is more important that knowing whether or not the programming is "handed down" to a junior programmer. If a project is completed to spec, on budget and on time, I'm not concerned with who "actually" completed the work. My only concern is the final product itself.

Regards,

-John Mizerek

Hi every one,

It is so easy nowadays to attempt to build your own "online empire" by throwing dirt at other's hard work. The OP is totally out of touch with the real world.

"Why believe me? I am Brian Bentow" - OMG everyone, it is Brian Bentow himself. BELIEVE in him !

I provide such services on odesk - http://www.odesk.com/users/~~b1b4ad64ca3cdb01 and can let you all know that bringing projects to life is NOT at all that difficult and troublesome. Yes, I charge just what about your (US) kid's allowance, and that is because I can make a living on that money in romania. Don't just think you get no quality just because of that. Why should you believe me ? Hmm.. do you know what is the second language spoken at Microsoft ? Take a wild guess. East europeans are good at computers generally.

We (freelancers, romanian programmers) just do not have to move out of our childhood grounds nowadays to make a decent living, and that is because a huge number of multinational companies came in and opened offices. A great number of outsourcing companies also emerged - many starting from just this kind of websites the OP is flaming upon. However, some of us just wanted to take matters into our own hands so we joined a freelance site. Maybe in time, I shall be earning even more than from daily job. Maybe not. But I am determined to find out. I shall persevere.

Oh there are many Indians / bangladesh etc that are known to do crap work. For instance, Freescale moved their India subsidiary business out of there (I think in 2006 or 2007). However, while many of them are just mass spamming projects with standard cover letters, quite a few have decent portfolios.

The only truth in original post is that they charge the 10%+ fee... quite expensive, but hey, they have established themselves on the net. We now have an oligopol - type of economy niche. Yes, we keep shouting at them all the time to lower fees, but they wown't do that anytime soon probably.

Happy outsourcing all!

Catalin,

I have to second many of your thoughts here. I realized from my own two hires that there seems to be a sense of entitlement when it comes to US-based programmers and their companies. It is absolutely true that you can find coders overseas to do the same job for MUCH less than you can find someone here to do it in the US. Basically outsourcing has arrived on this sort of business as well. One point that we do differ on is your generalizations regarding Indian programmers. I'm confident there are people everywhere that are known to do "crap" work, whether if be India, Bangladesh, Romania, or even in the US. Business is always a matter of doing one's best to weed the "crap" out of all suppliers, not just programming.

Granted there are hurdles that must be overcome in using these freelancing sites, such as interviewing online and communication during the project. However, as I stated previously, I truly believe good communication is the key to being able to outsource this sort of work. Elance and sites like them have learned this, and they have put a variety of measures into place in order to facilitate this sort of communication.

My thought on the fees they charge is that there is somewhat of an honour system. They have to charge a little higher than you the programmer may want to pay simply because open communication allows clients to potentially circumvent their web sites once a good freelance coder has been found. Obviously there are some unscrupulous coders who might take advantage of this sort of an arrangement, however both parties have to be willing to circumvent the system. I personally would not feel comfortable working with someone who would choose to not play by the rules.

Regardless, I do wish you well in your endeavours and I'm happy to know that your skills can be put to good use in exchange for a good fee for your services.

Regards,

-John Mizerek

Hey John,

thanks for supporting this (again). Just wanted to point out that developers do not really want to short-circuit the freelance system. If job gets assigned like this, I get no feedback from you so my profile stays empty. Which is of course not good for the business. If a guy proposes you this kind of thing, I recommend the following steps:

a) make sure he has a big number (15-20) of feedbacks.

b) he has been on the freelance site for some years

c) he is able to provide you with some employer's (corporate) email addresses that he previously worked for so they can tell you he is not a crook.

Any point not filled means he is there to rip you off.

Catalin

Catalin,

Good to see a checklist like that coming from an actual freelancer.

I'd also like to add that something i consider to be a tremendous positive is not only the number of feedbacks a prospective hire has, but also the number of repeat clients. Not sure if odesk tracks this, but I am aware of Elance doing so.

Regards,

-John

Good point, but do consider that most freelance job postings are traditionally short, one of a kind jobs, although nowadays with this crisis employers are turning their heads more and more to freelance sites for ongoing jobs.

To be specific - yes, odesk tracks which buyer hired you (but it is pretty unintuitivie - buyer ID (i.e. a number) is the only element showing you that a buyer returned to his provider). However, odesk has this very rare thinggie among freelance website - hourly jobs. So, if a guy has only one buyer that he worked with, but with ome 1000 hours paid, then again, he only got sick and tired to watch the 10% cut of his earnings evaporate into odesk's bank account, so he would probably not rip you. off. He is there for good.

Catalin

Related:

http://www.realtown.com/john/groups/real-estate-experts/view/19278

I just posted my third RFP of the past two months on Elance today. I'll keep the board posted with how things go.

I have already received four bids, three from India and one from Italy. The job is for a little Microsoft Exchange Server maintenance that I need done. All four bids for the project (estimated at ~5 hours total) came in under the average HOURLY rate to have a US-based server admin do the job. And three of the four bidders have Elance earnings of over $20,000, with positive feedback rates over 90% in all cases.

I've already interviewed two of them directly via both theElance workroom and through Google chats.

-John Mizerek

Yesterday I awarded the project, final agreed upon amount was $90. I also had one proposal come in from a US company, their quote was for $850!

My project has already been completed successfully and the hire did a fine job with it. Everything came out exactly as specified.

Another win-win-win for me, the programmer, and Elance.

-John Mizerek