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 RE: Top Producer Software Program

Created by:
Gary David Hall, Information Technology,  Doylestown,  PA

Date: December 11, 2008, Number of Replies: 4


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I would like to take a moment to ease some concerns about data loss that are either outright wrong, or simply overstated. They are: 1) Your data may not be safe with a Web based solution 2) Desktop solutions make your data vulnerable due to inconsistent backups

1) There are actually two sub-categories here. Some people are afraid that the web based provider may steal their contact database, and sell it.

There was an instance back in the 90's when a major franchise provided a Web based solution for its agents, and unbeknownst to the agents, their contact database was suddenly being deluged with e-mail and postal mail, soliciting the franchise's mortgage company, title company, insurance company, etc. In that case, the franchise claimed a right to the data. Whether or not the franchise was entitled to use that database was debatable, but it is quite different than a third party vendor doing it. Maybe that event is where this, what I consider to be irrational fear, came from.

That scenario is considerably different than a Web based CRM provider actually compromising their user's databases by selling the database, or soliciting to it. If they did that - their business would be over! It's that pure and simple. They would be found out in short order, and their business would be done. For what? For a few measly dollars that they could get for the sale of that data. I'm sorry - I just don't see it. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Most certainly not. It takes a great deal of time and effort to develop and market a CRM solution. To then sacrifice all of that for such a minimal gain would be sheer lunacy.

Secondly - people are concerned that their online database will simply be hacked, and marketed to. Is this possible? Sure. Is it probable? With no statistical data to support this supposition whatsoever, my guess would be that it's about as likely as your personal hard drive being hacked, and having your database stolen from it. Very low odds. Getting hit by lightening also comes to mind. Also consider that Top Producer would be a perfect, well known target, and it has not happened to them since they went online with their data in 2003.

With regards to an online solution simply losing your data; they always have at least one redundant set of servers - a backup. That said, my advice has always been to do a monthly export of your data from a Web based solution. This leaves nothing to chance. While that export will not be a copy of all your data, it will be all or most of your contact data, normally including names, phone numbers, addresses, notes, categories, etc.

There is actually another topic that bears discussion here. That is the heavily blown out of proportion, and just plain misrepresented, topic of contact managers/CRM solutions who "hold your data hostage". EACH SOLUTION IS VERY DIFFERENT WITH REGARDS TO HOW MUCH DATA THEY MAKE AVAILABLE FOR EXPORT. My apologies for shouting, but this is one of the most overblown misconceptions in the industry. The answer to quelling that fear is simply to find out, before you decide on a solution, exactly which, and how many, fields are available for export from your chosen solution. Also consider weighting what data is most important to you. As long as you have the primary contact information, you have your inventory. As long as you have your sphere of influence's names, addresses, phone numbers, and e-mail addresses, you have far and away the most important information. Everything beyond that may seem absolutely necessary, but if you think about it, not having it would be a nuisance, but it would not put you back to square one, as losing your inventory would.

2) Having a desktop solution means putting your database at risk, as many agents are bad/inconsistent at backing up.

While this is a valid concern, it used to be true more than it is now. One of the reasons is that a significant number of agents have now been burned - lost their data. You have never seen more religious backer-uppers than those who have at one time lost their data ;-)

The next reason is that if you pick the right solution now, there are very often at least two copies of the data in two different locations. Consider that a significant percentage of agents have both a desktop computer, and a laptop/tablet PC, or simply two desktops. One at 'the office', and one at the home office. If that is the case, then the database is being shared between the two, hence two copies, and no need for a backup. For two of the contact management/CRM desktop solutions I sell, the "Master Database" may be stored on a thumb drive, which is used to transfer the changes back and forth between the computers, while each computer also has it's own copy of the database. This means there are three copies of the database. If you have two or more computers, backing up is not an issue. Those same two solutions offer to "host" your master database, making it available to be shared by any number of remote users/computers. This of course, once again, makes backing up a non-issue, as the master would be the third copy of the database.

For those agents who have only one computer, which is certainly still a significant percentage of agents who use a contact management database, there are better and easier methods of backing up coming out all the time. There are automated online services which back up your computer "in the background" with no effort from you whatsoever, other than the original setup. My personal preference fro backing up all my data can be found on my home page. But if you still do not back up consistently, then you will be in trouble some day. For those of you who know you will not back up consistently - get a Web based solution! This will be a safer solution for you.

Once you have finally realized that you must have some kind of method to track and maintain a relationship with your sphere of influence, without a doubt, keeping that sphere of influence (your inventory) safe, is of paramount importance. Proper research and planning will ensure that it is given the attention it deserves.

Hope this helps!

Gary David Hall, Certified e-PRO Trainer, RECS, GRI, ASR, JIM Selling Top Producer, Advantage Xi, Agent Office, REST, Respond, WiseAgent, Active Agent, and more... The Real Estate CRM Broker 215.345.5222 or Talk to me now - Toll Free 'Trans-Plans' Activity Plans & Letters for Top Producer, Agent Office, Advantage Xi, & AA for Outlook

>>> This wasn't addressed to me, but my main reason is been because of security and confidentiality issues. I do almost everything else online but there are two areas I have issues with. One is confidential client info and the other is backing up online.

I'd love to do both online, but I have a lot of friends in the web/tech/online business and I'm still not convinced that it's the right thing for me. >>>

Depending on who has that information, I think you have some valid concerns. I think you should also be concerned if you have that data on your computer. If you're connected to the internet, there's always that chance that your computer could be compromised. Do you have all that confidential data encrypted? If you're like almost everyone, then the answer is no. I can tell you that all confidential information online with Agent in Command will be encrypted. This isn't 100% fail-proof of course, but it does provide some protection.

Another thing to consider is backups. Once again, the vast majority of people don't regularly back up their data. When their hard drives fail, they will lose a lot of time & money trying to recover the data, or may never recover it. Agent in Command will duplicate data, so that if we have an equipment failure, only a small amount of data will be lost.

To Top Quote   Reply
Bruce Caul Vendor

Date: December 11, 2008

Gary,

Thanks for addressing the topic of data loss. I would like to add something else for everyone who uses any CRM to consider. Data on a personal computer is far easier to steal than it is from a secure site like ours. Simply put, your pc and all of its contents is more likely to be stolen than the likelihood of someone knowing your username and successfully gaining access to your account. In other words, if another agent wants your contact list they can easily guess the location of your pc or perhaps even your backups, but it would be a lot more difficult for them to find your data on a server and steal it.

Keeping your username a secret is more security for your data than is typical of any media in your home or office. We all are concerned primarily about keeping our passwords secret, but a hacker can try and guess your password all day long if they don't know your username. It is not the case that someone would be able to break into our site and browse for a particular user account. It just isn't set up this way.

Of course, as Gary mentions, backups and hardware failures are the real culprit to data loss and security on a desktop product, and that becomes Top Producer's responsibility and part of what you pay for in the monthly fee of an online service. Considering the real cost of backing up and properly securing and storing your data to the extent that we do (fire, flood, earthquakes, intrusion and hardware failure, viruses, your time, a technician and more) online services of all kinds are a bargain.

And with respect to the comments about "leasing" a computer program being more risky than "owning" it on your own pc, the reality is that it is the data that is important with CRM, not the ability to use the program or not. Even if you didn't have access to Top Producer for any reason you can dream up, you can always open your exported database in a variety of programs, such as Excel, and use the search function to find what you are looking for.

Thanks,

Bruce Caul

Manager, Customer Service

Top Producer Systems

bcaul@topproducer.com

Toll Free: 1-800-444-8570 x8158

DID: 1-604-244-5775

Fax: 1-604-270-2492

www.topproducer.com

Contact Management
RE: Top Producer Software Program

Gary David Hall Information Technology Doylestown, PA

Dec 11, 2008

I would like to take a moment to ease some concerns about data loss that are either outright wrong, or simply overstated. They are: 1) Your data may not be safe with a Web based solution 2) Desktop solutions make your data vulnerable due to inconsistent backups

1) There are actually two sub-categories here. Some people are afraid that the web based provider may steal their contact database, and sell it.

2) Having a desktop solution means putting your database at risk, as many agents are bad/inconsistent at backing up.

Gary David Hall, Certified e-PRO Trainer, RECS, GRI, ASR, JIM Selling Top Producer, Advantage Xi, Agent Office, REST, Respond, WiseAgent, Active Agent, and more... The Real Estate CRM Broker 215.345.5222 or Talk to me now - Toll Free 'Trans-Plans' Activity Plans & Letters for Top Producer, Agent Office, Advantage Xi, & AA for Outlook

Audio/Video recordings of the 10 hour Agent Office classes My Blog

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Chris Parks Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Poughkeepsie,  NY

Date: December 12, 2008

I consider myself to be fairly tech savvy. I like to try new things and move forward.

However

I subscribe to "Popular Mechanics" and came across a LESS rosy picture of whether or not data ANYWHERE is secure. The short answer is "no."

I urge anyone that reads this e-mail to either buy the January issue of the magazine, or read the piece here, on line: 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4295100.html?nav=hpPrint&do=print

Some of the text follows:

 

The Privacy Cloud

The one foolproof countermeasure to prevent prying marketers and hacker snoops from digging into your data has always been to yank the cord. Data can’t be siphoned off an unconnected computer. But consumers are increasingly leaving everything from e-mail to photos to documents on off-site data-storage services - a trend known as cloud computing. Tech heavyweights such as Amazon, Google, IBM, Intel, Microsoft and Yahoo market the services as everything from disaster backup and recovery solutions to Web-based software that allows consumers to access and work on their files from any digital device on the planet. The advantage of this approach is obvious: If your data isn’t located on any one machine, it can never be lost or corrupted. But when your personal data isn’t on your personal computer, it’s out of your control.

Experts warn that data left in the cloud does not enjoy the level of legal and privacy protections as the same data residing on the user’s home PC. “The police can only get into your home if they have a search warrant, but the laws for police access to remote servers are much looser,” says Peter Swire, a former privacy advisor to the Clinton administration who now teaches cyberspace law at Ohio State University’s College of Law. “That means in civil or criminal litigation or a divorce case, you may not know if someone is looking at your files. You have to hope the provider objects.”

Because cloud computing is still such a new phenomenon, many of its threats to personal privacy remain unexplored. Seventy percent of consumers use Web-based e-mail services such as Yahoo Mail, Gmail, Microsoft’s Hotmail or Apple’s MobileMe. The contents of and attachments to these e-mails could be processed or stored on servers around the world. All of these companies state in their terms of use that they must comply with legitimate requests for information from law enforcement, and this is by no means limited to law enforcement in the U.S. That could potentially make the correspondence of a U.S. citizen subject to foreign laws.

End text

Could your data be accessed and (ab)used by someone else?

Yes

 

Yours,

Chris Parks - ABR, e-Pro, GRI - Accelerated

Broker

CParksGo@Gmail.com

To Top Quote   Reply
Paul Silver,  Portsmouth,  RI

Date: December 13, 2008

Experts warn that data left in the cloud does not enjoy the level of legal
and privacy protections as the same data residing on the user's home PC.
"The police can only get into your home if they have a search warrant, but
the laws for police access to remote servers are much looser," says Peter
Swire, a former privacy advisor to the Clinton administration who now
teaches cyberspace law at Ohio State University's College of Law. "That
means in civil or criminal litigation or a divorce case, you may not know if
someone is looking at your files. You have to hope the provider objects."

Because cloud computing is still such a new phenomenon, many of its threats
to personal privacy remain unexplored. Seventy percent of consumers use
Web-based e-mail services such as Yahoo Mail, Gmail, Microsoft's Hotmail or
Apple's MobileMe. The contents of and attachments to these e-mails could be
processed or stored on servers around the world. All of these companies
state in their terms of use that they must comply with legitimate requests
for information from law enforcement, and this is by no means limited to law
enforcement in the U.S. That could potentially make the correspondence of a
U.S. citizen subject to foreign laws.
End text
Could your data be accessed and (ab)used by someone else?
Yes
Yours,
Chris Parks

---

I also have a different issue, I mentioned previously, that data stored at
third party locations can be difficult to retrieve in the event of a dispute
with the vendor... for this reason alone I would be skeptical of
subscription models... disputes can range from overcharges (vendor) and lack
of payment (buyer/user) to support issues, acceptable use issues, law
enforcement, and virtually anything else... also, if the company goes under,
and cannot maintain the servers, you are done... this has happened and does
happen, so be careful folks...

Have a great day!

Best regards,

Paul Silver
Focus Professionals, Inc.

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Robert Ameeti Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Coto de Caza,  CA

Date: December 13, 2008

At 8:36 AM -0800, 12/11/08, Gary David Hall wrote:

>That scenario is considerably different than a
>Web based CRM provider actually compromising
>their user's databases by selling the database,
>or soliciting to it. If they did that - their
>business would be over! It's that pure and
>simple. They would be found out in short order,
>and their business would be done. For what? For
>a few measly dollars that they could get for the
>sale of that data. I'm sorry - I just don't see
>it. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Most
>certainly not. It takes a great deal of time and
>effort to develop and market a CRM solution. To
>then sacrifice all of that for such a minimal
>gain would be sheer lunacy.

What you are addressing is the company deciding
to steal the data as a business plan. What most
often happens is some low level, hourly paid,
unhappy tech in their company decides that he can
make some additional money by selling all of the
data that he has in his control. This is then
done without any knowledge by the company
officers.

>Secondly - people are concerned that their
>online database will simply be hacked, and
>marketed to. Is this possible? Sure. Is it
>probable? With no statistical data to support
>this supposition whatsoever, my guess would be
>that it's about as likely as your personal hard
>drive being hacked, and having your database
>stolen from it.

The difference is that my personal hard drives
contains hundreds of leads rather than hundreds
of thousands that the online company will have
access to. The incentive and reward are on a
different scale.

>With regards to an online solution simply losing
>your data; they always have at least one
>redundant set of servers - a backup. That said,
>my advice has always been to do a monthly export
>of your data from a Web based solution. This
>leaves nothing to chance.

The majority of users are not backing up their
local hard drive. And now you expect a greater
percentage of users are going to go through the
work of backing up their remotely, protected data
that is far more cumbersome to access as it is
remote and programs are not designed to do this
automatically? Ain't gunna happen. Not in the
real world.

>contact managers/CRM solutions who "hold your
>data hostage". EACH SOLUTION IS VERY DIFFERENT
>WITH REGARDS TO HOW MUCH DATA THEY MAKE
>AVAILABLE FOR EXPORT. My apologies for shouting,
>but this is one of the most overblown
>misconceptions in the industry. The answer to
>quelling that fear is simply to find out, before
>you decide on a solution, exactly which, and how
>many, fields are available for export from your
>chosen solution.

The analysis of exported data is beyond the
capabilities of most users. As data will likely
be kept in multiple tables, with indexed fields
being used for links between tables, the manual
re-entry of this data will likely be required if
the data had been held in SQL databases as it
will so often be.

>Also consider weighting what data is most
>important to you. As long as you have the
>primary contact information, you have your
>inventory. As long as you have your sphere of
>influence's names, addresses, phone numbers, and
>e-mail addresses, you have far and away the most
>important information. Everything beyond that
>may seem absolutely necessary, but if you think
>about it, not having it would be a nuisance, but
>it would not put you back to square one, as
>losing your inventory would.

Anything I've taken the time to enter, I want the
privilege of having use of. Nothing less should
be accepted.

--

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Robert Ameeti - REALTOR®, e-PRO® specialist in Orange County

Architecture is the art of how to waste space.
-- Philip Johnson
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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