RealTown's RealTalk

Tom and Lindy,

I agree with both of you.  It's a shame NAR and local boards didn't protect it's members.  I think this is a direct reflection of lack of knowledge and greed.  It always sounds like a great idea to make things bigger and better, but with bigger and better there is almost always sacrifice.  Here in California some are pushing for statewide MLS. What do you think is going to happen if and when that passes?

I'm in South Riverside County and we just joined or maybe it's considered collaborated with CAROTS (I may have misspelled that).  This new system has combined several boards and MLS systems into one log in.  So, Riverside County, Orange County, LA County, Santa Barbara County, San Bernardino County, and a couple more are all on the same site.  This has caused several problems.

First of all each board has different rules, so we're having to deal with issues like "When does an agent have to change the status of a listing to pending, or back up".  This one issue has caused mass confusion, and unfairness to agents working with buyers who wind up showing homes that are already in Escrow.   This being said the thought of a state wide MLS scares me.

Have you seen www.MLS.com?  It's a portal to every state MLS.  How do we stop this?  I don't think we can. 

So who's to blame?   I don't know, but I do hope someone will step up and protect us as Realtors and bring the listing side of our business back to us.



Kindest Regards,
 Troy Sage  
“Covering All Angles”
33449 Temecula Parkway
Temecula, CA 92592
DIRECT: (951) 834-2840
FAX: (951) 344-8210
EMAIL: teamsage@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.troysage.com
 

Eileen,

I was thinking the same thing. I haven't seen the word "abrogate" in a couple of years. The last reference in my saved folders is from 2005, but it must have been used since then. Love your closing line.

Since it's back in vogue, do I have to address the Toms as Mr. Hathaway and Mr. Early?

Fred Pickard

Certified e-Pro Trainer, CRS, CRB, GRI, e-Pro
Innovations Realty
50A West Caracas Avenue
Hershey, PA 17033

Cell 717-315-4989

www.FredPickard.com
Fred@MoveToHershey.com

From: Eileen Landau ABR, CRS, e-PRO, SRES [mailto:RealTalk@RealTown.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:32 AM
To: Fred Pickard
Subject: RealTalk: RE: FSBOs Get Agent-free Access to Realtor.com ID00DC5G

		RealTalk Powered by RealTown Communities
	REALTOR Dot com RE: FSBOs Get Agent-free Access to Realtor.com Eileen Landau ABR, CRS, e-PRO, SRES Licensed Real Estate Broker Serving Naperville, IL Nov 16, 2008 "...the agency relationship abrogated...said Tom H." Geez, I was wondering how long it would take till those above words once again appeared. Was anybody counting the days? (For newbies...Tom's agency "discussions" are legendary on RT) Nothing abrogated, nothing changed... Eileen Landau, ABR, CRS, E-Pro Over 800 Homes Sold! Realty Executives, Pro/Team Serving Naperville, Downers Grove and Woodridge 630-961-2600 Direct 630-515-9500 Office www.MoveUptoNaperville.com www.EileenLandau.com View / Reply on the Web Reply to Community You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to RealTalk on RealTown Communities. If you have forgotten your password, click here. To unsubscribe from this list, please visit http://www.realtown.com/community/users/preferences.

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Eileen writes: ..."...the agency relationship abrogated...said Tom H." Geez, I was wondering how long it would take till those above words once again appeared.

Exciting isn't it Eileen?

Really Eileen, agency is such an important part of our profession it is hard not talk about it from time to time. And because it is such an important part of the industry, it is hard to avoid it when we are having discussions about lots of things, including the loss of control of the listing data.

I had to cut my post short to Lindy earlier as I was late for church, so I will finish it here.

The obvious connection between the abrogation of agency in the mid 90's and the problems most Realtors are concerned about today, related to the loss of the listing commissions (fsbo's offering their homes for sale on the MLS), is easy to see. When non-agency practices were made legal in the 1990's it opened the door to allow MLS only type listing to happen. Previously, the broker was responsible under the Common Law of Agency to do certain things for the seller, but once non agency (facilitator/transaction brokerage) was approved the barn door was opened wide open . BUT IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO SHUT IT AGAIN. The abrogation of agency was soon followed by a number of legal challenges, such as the case in Austin Texas.

I still to this day have a few friends left at the DOJ who I can talk to, even though most have retired since I was more connected there. I know in the mid 1990's those involved in real estate regulatory matters could not believe NAR worked so hard to remove the natural insulation that agency requirements provided the real estate industry. Previously the states fully exercised their States Rights to govern the industry with the law of agency being their backbone of support under which most disciplinary actions took place. By doling away with the requirement of agency within the state regulatory process and moving to statutory law, it allowed closer Federal oversight since the states were givi ng up a great deal of their authority to oversee the industry. In short this made it easier for the Feds to take action because when the common law of agency was abrogated, it gutted most of the state commission authority.

So once the non agency relationship was in place it was only natural for the DOJ to come in and defend the right of those non agency practitioners to use the MLS in their practice of real estate at not only a discounted price, but a highly discounted price. The DOJ had long considered the MLS the industries method of keeping membership within the organization so NAR had for a long time pr omoted the power of the MLS to the consumers in ads stating that "most homes that are sold are sold through the MLS. Consult a Realtor today to get your home listed in the MLS". And in those days we all know that the commissions charged were essentially the same within a percentage point or so. But when non agency was promoted by NAR and actually happened, then there was nothing at that point in time that NAR could do to stop a member from offering to put a seller's listing in the MLS, sometimes for as little as $99. Suddenly, over time, the industry risked loosing half of it's cash (income) flow. Isn't that really what is now happening folks?

The knee jerk reaction was for organized real estate to come up with a set of minimum standards for listing agents. The key word here was for "listing agent". Notice no minimum standards for buyer agents. The DOJ saw through that right away and stepped in to stop the movement. Even though a few states did pass these minimum standards for listing agents, that effort all but ended after several lawsuits brought by the DOJ and most likely some backroom negotiating.

So here we are today. NAR has done all it could to profit from the local MLS's. After all, prior to the early 1990s, NAR did not make any money whatever from local board MLSs. Since then millions of dollars of your and my money has been passed on to NAR and used in their presuit to control YOUR listing information for THEIR financial best interest. Meanwhile, we members are expected to pay, in additional, fees to NAR to promote the name Realtor nationwide in what many would call a wasteful manner in effective manner. I can recall back in the early 1990's when only a total of $50 of my annual dues went to NAR. How much do you pay today and what do you get for all the monely you send them and Move.com?

So how do we as members stop this madness? Simple. Each board should develop a local MLS web site like the one in Lubbock Texas for instance. (Google Lubbock Texas Board of Realtors). Next, cut off the feed to NAR/Realtor.com. You will immediately see that the only difference the listing agents will find is that their cost will go down drastically. Lets face it, the general public who is looking to buy in Lubbock or Spokane, or Denver, or Collierville Tennessee is going to google Lubbock, Spokane, Denver, or Collierville TN MLS and find the Boards (your) listings just as fast or faster than through Realtor.com. Same information, same pictures, same service, except more direct to the listing agent. If their was an issue, you could go by your board and get it fixed. I guarantee if the majority of the Boards would do this, within 90 days Realtor.com and Move.com would be out of business. Without you and your listings they go nothing to offer anyone. You already have everything it takes to do this. You got the building, the staff, the knowledge, and the supply of inventory. That is all it takes.

Oh one other thing. If you wanted your own company only MLS all your board would have to do is code your listings (they already are coded) and then set each office up with a web address that would pull only their listings. The link to your listing would be attached to your office's web site. Simple isn't it? Inexpensive too.

Finally the membership, thorugh your local and state association should reclaim your authority by having your state legislatature abrogage the abrogation of the common law of agency so that we can save the industry at the grass roots level. Remember, we are the ones who fund the state pacs, not NAR.

You know, it is not hard to solve these problems as long as the people looking at them are not being driven by their own greed and need to get a piece of the pie. What ever happened to the idea that we all work together for our combined best interest?

Tom Hathaway

I found Steve Ervins response and summary of the situation to be both well stated and informative.

Since I am currently involved with several committies that are considering that are considering their relationship with Realtor,com in so far as data being provided from the regional mls directly to Realtor.com, this topic is both timely and pertinent to decisions that are being made 'now' at the regional level.

I am very glad I checked in today !

I will pass this information along to those committees.

Thanks for sharing.

Troy,
You asked how it can be stopped. Easy. All the members have to do is cut their listing off from Realtor.com and have their local board/MLS put up a web site for the public. The solution could be fast, and would be far less expensive than what you all are currently paying Realtor.com per year. By the way, anytime something gets larger, the individuals involved loose more and more control. It does not matter if it is state wide or national. If it were I, I would be totally against a state wide MLS. It serves the best interest of just a very small percentage of the members and the majority end up loosing control. What will keep the Cal. statewide directors from eventually doing the same thing that NAR did, and turn the keys to the store over to another Move.Com?
Tom Hathaway

We are a fragmented association on all levels. Local, State and National! We should have a national license like truck drivers!

DOJ - what a joke. I also have my securities licenses as does/did Saul. As a Registered Representative with a Series 66 and 7, my compliance officer must review everything I do with those licenses. Guess what is really funny...the SEC - A Federal Agency - by Federal Laws set commissions (MAX Charge but not min charge) but they come after the Realtors...hmmm?

Real Estate License oversight by states are lax in most areas. That is sad. NAR states that the biggest investment of a person is their home. I agree. Realtors have the ability to cause a person to go bankrupt with little or no real education or oversight. I can have a person ready to pass their test in just a few days. Pass the test - not sale real estate properly! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

I'd like comments on Zillow and how everyone was up in arms just over a year ago. Zillow spoke at the NAR Conference in 2007 but just laid off 25% of it's staff. Their information is still not accurate in my area. Did Realtors see them as a threat? Many did...not me.

The biggest threat to me is the lack of health and disability insurance! We were told that a Credit Union would allow us affordable insurance over two years ago. Now I hear that it will not allow affordable insurance but we are getting a credit union...So what !!!! If it doesn't get us affordable insurance...I don't need it!

FSBO's will always be in the market. I hate showing property to my Buyers' with the Seller being a tour guide.

This too will pass.

Bob Sorey, CCIM, ALC and many other designations not listed
Chief Experience Officer
Best Real Estate Advisors
2598 N. Mt Juliet Road
Suite 200
Mt. Juliet, TN 37122
615-758-6880 Ofc
615-758-6997 Ofc Fax
615-229-0353 E-Fax may need to dial the entire number
Bob@BobSorey.com