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Design vs. SEO: what's the difference?

Created by: Suzanne Hathcock Stephens, Vendor, Battle Ground, WA

Date: Jan 20, 2008, Number of Replies: 37

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In my daily conversations with REALTORs(R)s, I am continually surprised by the number who do not understand the different roles of Web site design specialists and SEO specialists.

These are almost entirely separate specialties, with just a little overlap. In competitive markets especially, it's critical that you not ignore either aspect of site development.

Here's the main difference: SEO is about getting people to visit your site. Design is about keeping them there, engaging them and converting them to leads -- hopefully at a much higher conversion rate than non-professionally designed sites.

It's really that simple.

Just as David Gordon, my copywriter creative partner, has devoted his college education and career to learning to write engaging copy, I have spent mine learning to design visually engaging ads for all types of advertising media, including newspaper, magazine, print collateral materials and -- yes -- Web sites. (A secret of good design: we tend to do just the opposite of what an amateur would do.)

Where's the overlap between design and SEO? Well, it occurs primarily in the final production work, such as writing HTML code, that takes your site live. While technically NOT a part of the design process, your designer may choose to do it herself or it may be done by what we in the trade call a "production artist," under the designer's supervision. Some more technical aspects may be handled by a programmer.

A third alternative is that your designer and/or production artist may install the site, then an SEO specialist may come back later and tweak the code, optimizing title tags, meta tags, the content itself, etc.

Content creation -- writing text content to go on your site or to be published as articles elsewhere or as blogs, is also handled by some SEO specialists. It's another area where design and SEO may overlap.

Content creation can also be handled by design firms. (I don't include it in my established basic fee structure.) Many agents do an excellent job of creating their own content, and its easiest for them because they know their local markets better than outside consultants.

What about the idea that great content will result in great SEO because lots of people will link from their sites to yours? Forget it. It's not going to happen in any meaningful numbers. Your content MAY result in a few stray "long tail" searchers, but they are unlikely to significantly impact your numbers. As Bill Clinton would say, the great content = great SEO thing is a fairy tale.

A final important task is often done by SEO specialists rather than designers: getting inbound links to the agent's site. This step is very time-consuming, can be quite expensive, and can be very important to getting good placement in the search engines. Highly ranked real estate sites tend to have hundreds or thousands of inbound links. I guarantee you that most of them were not created by site owners sitting around writing glowing reports about how wonderful the agent's site is: they were most likely created by SEO people at significant expense.

So, to summarize: SEO people are responsible for getting traffic to your web site. Designers are responsible for making your site look so good and function well that visitors will want to use the site and will convert to leads. A beautifully designed site lacking good SEO will languish. A poorly designed site with high traffic may lose a high percentage of its visitors, which means that the money spent on SEO was wasted. Good design combined with good SEO can be a dynamite combination.

Suzanne

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens

Point2 Design Partner

http://www.SuzStephens.com

Phone/fax: 360-666-0881

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Rich Hudson Information Technology, San Diego, CA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Suzanne,

Love your design work, but I disagree that content will not significantly impact your website.

Fresh, relevant local content is spidered by all the major search engines and will keep consumers coming back. I include listings as part of the content package.

If you're looking for a quote from Bill, I like this one. "It all depends on what your definition of is is."

I'd like to hear from some of the other web designers on the role content plays in attracting consumers and SEO so we can get some perspective.

Rich Hudson
Director of PR/Marketing
InternetCrusade
(619) 283-7302 Ext. 602
Rich@InternetCrusade.com

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Dirk Johnson Vendor, sterling, VA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens:

"Highly ranked real estate sites tend to have hundreds or thousands
of inbound links. I guarantee you that most of them were not created
by site owners sitting around writing glowing reports about how
wonderful the agent's site is: they were most likely created by SEO
people at significant expense."

Hi Suzanne,

Excellent post. The more we strip away the fog and goofy SEO
theories, the better.

Just to follow up on your links comments...In the past, this board
had a very active member who claimed adamantly that "good content"
was the key to hundreds and hundreds of links to their site. And, in
that specific case, it was. This member then used that as the "Holy
Grail" example of link building, and would admonish other RealTalkers
to just "create good content" and they, too, would magically get
links. This agent seemed to spend hours per day at just that task,
instead of selling real estate.

Folks, that example, while a stellar one at the power of content to
generate links (it can), is simply NOT DUPLICABLE for the average
agent. I've been at this work a very long time, and the following
statement is not meant to be derogatory. It is a statement of
fact....Nobody cares all that much about what you write about for
your local market. For one, most of it has already been said by
someone else, and two, even if it is exceptional, not enough other
people will take the time to link to it.

Finally, exceptional content takes a lot of time and or money to
generate on a consistent basis. Time is precious in this business.
Will you spend your time writing content or selling houses? Or
rather, can you?

For real estate agents that want/need links to their site in the
quantities that matter in a competitive region, there are actually
VERY FEW viable options that can be relied upon consistently. And
they take time and money to pursue them. Few other site owners will
link to another site for purely gratuitous reasons anymore.

Also, the kind of content that REALLY works for real estate-related
search terms in a local market is NOT the kind of content that most
people want to cite. Instead, it is generally well-crafted for the
purpose of attracting search traffic, and then converting that
traffic to leads by instilling confidence in the site visitor that
this agent knows the local market. It is largely self-promotional,
but in a way that is meaningful to the visitor. Who is going to link
to that for nothing in return? Almost nobody, yet it is very
effective when done properly.

Folks, we can beat around the bushes all day by claiming that
well-written articles about the local fruit festival or flowers in
the park will attract imaginary links by the hundreds and a steady
stream of visitors. In small, non-competitive markets, it just might
be enough to provide some sort of differentiation. I am sure that
some agents can make a case for it, using their own sites as an
example. Yet it is generally NOT DUPLICABLE to other markets without
a lot of effort. In competitive metro markets, it takes a reality
check to realize that earning links in quantities that matter aren't
free and "good content" alone will probably not drive enough links or
traffic that makes a difference.

More and more, only a well-planned, well-executed SEO effort will
really make a difference. One that is not based on non-duplicable
promotional theories or empty promises from dogmatic people with an
axe to grind about SEO theories. Anyone who wants to see what that
looks like, please contact me.

Here's a multi-page document that was specifically written for real
estate professionals, using real estate examples:
Search Engine Optimization Basics For Real Estate-Related Websites
http://www.domaindrivers.com/seobasics-realestate-main.htm

I hope it helps.

Best regards,

Dirk Johnson
Partner - Operations
DomainDrivers LLC
djohnson@domaindrivers.com
703-406-4698
http://domaindrivers.realtown.com
We're an approved RealTalk/RealTown vendor:
http://DomainDrivers.InternetCrusade.com

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Keith Byrd, San Luis Obispo, CA, CA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

I have a slight different take on what makes a successful real estate website. Goal #1) You need to get them to your site Goal #2) You need to get them to keep coming back until they use one of your lead generators. The most important part of a real estate website, IMO, is the MLS Search. That is what people are going to keep coming back to if you have the BEST one they run across. Buyers are searching multiple sites these days and you've got to have something to get them to come back. Also, the MLS Search has to have a good lead generator. A call-to-action button that a prospect will see and use. The free IDX that is included by a lot of the MLS systems don't even have a call-to-action button. (If you are in my area, please disregard this comment and continue to use the Rapattoni IDX.) Content is key in keeping people coming back and to get people talking about your site. As far as SEO goes, having different pages of content is going to help attract people. What I've found from my web logs is that people use some pretty obscure search terms. If I didn't have those pages on my site with that keyword phrase on it, I wouldn't have received that click-through. Most are keyword phrases I would have never spent any time optimizing for. But by just having that content on my site, I'm the one that shows up in the SERPs for that keyword phrase! Once they are on my site, then Goal #2 from above kicks in. As far as Design goes, I don't put too much emphasis on the look of a site. To me, it's all about the LAYOUT of the site and how easy it is to get people to those things that will keep them coming back. I've seen plenty of pretty sites that fail miserably in site navigation and doubt that people will return just because the site looks good or is unique. If the Search the MLS button isn't prominent, you're blowing it! (assuming your MLS still allows you to have this button). If your IDX doesn't have a good lead generator, that's mistake #2. Do you really think prospects come to your site to see your Featured Listings or Office Listings?? If not, don't put these buttons at the top. Keith Byrd http://www.SloCountyHomes.com

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Suzanne Hathcock stephens Vendor, Battle Ground, WA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

On Jan 21, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Rich Hudson wrote:
>
> What about the idea that great content will result in great SEO
> because lots of people will link from their sites to yours? Forget
> it. It's not going to happen in any meaningful numbers. Your
> content MAY result in a few stray "long tail" searchers, but they
> are unlikely to significantly impact your numbers. As Bill Clinton
> would say, the great content = great SEO thing is a fairy tale.
>
> Suzanne Hathcock Stephens
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Suzanne, Love your design work, but I disagree that content will not
> significantly impact your website. Fresh, relevant local content is
> spidered by all the major search engines and will keep consumers
> coming back. I include listings as part of the content packageIf
> you're looking for a quote from Bill, I like this one. "It all
> depends on what your definition of is is."
>
>
>

Rich, I agree that listings are a vital part of content. But, as
Bill said, it depends on what your definition of is is.

In fact, listings are the single most important part of an agent's web
site. However, my point of view, if you'll pardon the pun, tends to be
Point2-centric. And where Point2 sites are concerned, entering
listings the agent's responsibility, not the designer's or the SEO
person's responsibility. No agent is going to pay a designer or SEO
expert's hourly fees to enter listings. So, in my thinking, listings
are a separate category of content.

I always encourage my clients to both enter their listings into
Point2's system and to have the best IDX service available iframed
into their Point2 site. Having to double enter listings is some extra
trouble, but worth the effort in terms of extra traffic derived
through Point2 syndication.

Listings will attract searchers, and in the case of Point2 members,
they'll benefit added traffic from visitors who get there via listings
on Point2Homes.com and on Point2 syndication partners' sites. (I've
seen traffic on sites newly moved from other hosts to Point2 jump as
much as 20-30% as a result of visitors from syndication partner sites.

All that other content like area info, subdivision info, newcomer
info? While it's great to have, it will only attract a very small
percentage of search traffic. However, SEO'd extra content CAN
contribute to a better SE ranking and may contribute toward better
search engine results positioning.

What about the usefulness of original content to site visitors? A very
high percentage of page views will be on a site's home page, its MLS
search page, and its featured listings page. Each of the other pages
is likely to get only .5%-2% of the site's pageviews.

Example: 73.87% of page views this month on RealEstateUtah.com were on
the home page, featured listings, MLS search pages, and listings
details pages. Out of 511 search engine referrals, roughly a dozen
visitors came via "long tail" searches; the rest were from variations
on these keyphrases real estate utah, utah homes, utah realty, salt
lake city real estate and cedar city real estate. I would never "dis"
visitors, no matter how they get there, but the fact is, the vast
majority come from searches on the usual "city name real estate" or
"city name homes for sale" keyphrases.

I'm working on redesigning another site which has a wealth of original
content on the original site: probably over 100 pages. Nonetheless,
78% of its total page views are on the home page, and at least 68%
leave directly from the home page without going any further. The extra
content isn't helping keep visitors or attract returning visitors
because they are never seeing it. Instead, the site's high bounce rate
indicates that the majority of visitors to the site simply leave. The
percentage of return visitors is about 15%, whereas the rate of return
visitors to RealEstateUtah.com, which has much less original content,
is 29%, and the bounce rate, or % of people who leave from
RealEStateUtah.com's home page is only 39%. So, partly as a result of
good design, RealEstateUtah.com is retaining nearly twice as many
first time visitors and getting nearly twice as many return visitors.
And both sites have listings, of course, so the main difference in
their performance stats can be credited to design.

Suzanne

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens
Point2 Design Partner
http://www.SuzStephens.com

1100 NW 9th Way
Battle Ground, WA 98604
Phone/fax: 360-666-0881

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Suzanne Hathcock stephens Vendor, Battle Ground, WA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

On Jan 21, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Dirk Johnson wrote:
>
> Folks, that example, while a stellar one at the power of content to
> generate links (it can), is simply NOT DUPLICABLE for the average
> agent. I've been at this work a very long time, and the following
> statement is not meant to be derogatory. It is a statement of
> fact....Nobody cares all that much about what you write about for
> your local market.

I agree, Dirk. My designs have been used on over a 1000 agent sites
and I've designed dozens of non-real estate sites since I began doing
Web site design in 1994. In the 14 years since then, I've only seen
one of my sites get a significant number of inbound links naturally --
and it's not a real estate agent site. My husband's guitar components
are frequently reviewed with links to his site on other sites such as
the Fender guitar forum, so it has built up a few hundred links. Other
than the situation you mentioned, Dirk, I can only think of maybe one
other situation where a real estate agent's site attract that kind of
attention and "organic" inbound links: didn't I read once that Lenn
Harley' allows other agents to link to her maps with permission?

Suzanne

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens
Point2 Design Partner
http://www.SuzStephens.com
Phone/fax: 360-666-0881

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Win Singleton Vendor, Falls Church, VA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Hi!

This one is easy! You are both right... sort of. But Suzanne is more on track.

Suzanne wrote -
"What about the idea that great content will result in great SEO because lots of people will link from their sites to yours? Forget it. It's not going to happen in any meaningful numbers." Then she adds, "the great content = great SEO thing is a fairy tale!"

And Rich wrote -
"Fresh, relevant local content is spidered by all the major search engines and will keep consumers coming back. I include listings as part of the content package."

Fresh listings are certainly new "content"... and that would count to some degree, as Rich wrote. The search engines do like to read new stuff. And for a real estate site, regardless of rankings, this section is very important to keep visitors coming back to give them what they really want - homes to look at. But fresh listings are usually not enough by themselves to achieve any high rankings at all. (By the way, a web site is being regularly spidered all the time.) So if this was the answer, the site with the freshest content should be rising to the top. But they don't. I have to agree with Suzanne that "great" text content is just not enough to get any significant links from other sites to your site. So the real answer is good, solid SEO techniques! What proof do I have?

Right now, I have more than a dozen different real estate web clients alone in the Washington DC metro area ranking in the Top 20 organic rankings in Google for various metro area search terms - like Fairfax VA Real Estate or Bethesda MD Real Estate, etc. All of these sites feature that client's new listings and also have a Property section that can be searched by visitors to show thousands of other homes for sale. I also have many, many more real estate clients here and around the country in the Top 10, Top 20 or Top 30 in Yahoo, MSN and Google for their targeted search phrases. So some might say that fresh, new listings would support the "fresh content" idea. But it is not the Property section pages that have any rankings in these search engines! It is their "static" or fixed text content pages that have all the rankings.

I also build some non-real estate sites too. These sites certainly don't have any "live" Property section or anything else that would be "dynamic". Yet for some very competitive search terms, they also show up in Google's Top 10 or Top 20 organic rankings... and in Yahoo and MSN too. But these sites only have web pages with text content where that text was written months ago. Yet they continue to rank high and maintain or gain their positioning. (As a matter of fact, few of my clients in any industry put up any new text content at all! We work very hard together to create "optimized content" that is keyword rich in the very beginning.)

So if new listings are not enough... and my high ranking clients rarely add any new, "fresh" text to their web pages... the answer has to be elsewhere. And it is. Sound SEO techniques built right into their HTML web page coding from the start, along with seeking out in-bound or back links to help satisfy Google. I have many happy web clients who do nothing more than their "day" jobs and rarely lift a finger to change or add new content their sites.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Win

************************
Win Singleton, CRB, e-PRO
Summit Web Design
(703) 536-7631
wins@summitweb.com
http://Summitweb.InternetCrusade.com
an Internet Crusade Approved Vendor
"Custom web site design that gets results!"
************************

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Richard Shaw Information Technology, Hutchinson, KS

Date: Jan 21, 2008

OK Rich.. I'll throw my 2 cents into the mix .... I haven't participated
in a while but I'm sure a few here might remember me :)

I agree with Rich, content is definitely important but there's something
everyone is missing. It's developing unique niche content with polite
direct response marketing. Whether that is different pages on a main
site or separate Lead Capture sites that are promoted and targeted
specifically to capture those niche leads into effective and largely
automated follow up consisting of both email, print and good old
fashioned phone calls.

One main site cannot be all things to all people. Those days are long
gone. Unless your seo, print and/or ppc are landing people on pages
specifically designed to capture leads for visitors seeking that
information, there is a huge hole in the process.

Of course main sites need an MLS search and a CMA form but just having
those and hoping visitors will raise their hand leaves way too much on
the table. There's an old sales saying ..:"Features Tell... Benefits
Sell"...If there is nothing special in it for your clients to choose you
for a specific service then you are just hoping to get a few leads by
accident. The vast majority of websites have largely the same features
in different colors and layouts.... Develop the niche(s).. design the
offer, design the page and follow up plan... THEN it's time to promote...

Designers make things look pretty... copywriters write copy.... and the
marketing aspect is generally completely ignored.

The again .. I could be wrong :) .... let the flaming begin ;)

Richard Shaw - BusyAgentPro
The Best Kept Secret in Real Estate (but not for long)
www.busyagentpro.com
support@busyagentpro.com

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Keith Byrd, San Luis Obispo, CA, CA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Sorry for the lack of formatting on my post. For whatever reason, when I post on the web using IE6 or Firefox, it strips all the carriage returns.

Any suggestions?

Keith Byrd

Editor's Note
Keith, we are aware of the issue and will be beta testing the new platform shortly. I'll be sending the beta test instructions tomorrow.John

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Suzanne Hathcock stephens Vendor, Battle Ground, WA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

On Jan 21, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Win Singleton wrote:
>
> Suzanne wrote -
> "What about the idea that great content will result in great SEO
> because lots of people will link from their sites to yours? Forget
> it. It's not going to happen in any meaningful numbers." Then she
> adds, "the great content = great SEO thing is a fairy tale!"
>
> And Rich wrote -
> "Fresh, relevant local content is spidered by all the major search
> engines and will keep consumers coming back. I include listings as
> part of the content package."
>
> Fresh listings are certainly new "content"... and that would count
> to some degree, as Rich wrote. The search engines do like to read
> new stuff. And for a real estate site, regardless of rankings, this
> section is very important to keep visitors coming back to give them
> what they really want - homes to look at. But fresh listings are
> usually not enough by themselves to achieve any high rankings at all.

Another little twist to keep in mind: if your IDX listings are
iframed into a site, as they would be on a Point2 site, the search
engines will not see updated listings as new content on your site
because the content is actually hosted by your IDX provider's server.

So only listings that you've manually entered into your Point2 site
will count as fresh content. And since handshake listings are
repackaged with your own identity, I assume that they also count as
updates to your own site, but I wouldn't care to bet huge sums of
money on that little detail.

Suzanne

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens
Point2 Design Partner
http://www.SuzStephens.com
Phone/fax: 360-666-0881

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Kathleen Allardyce Vendor, Peachtree City, GA

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Wow - so many issues have been addressed in this thread, I wouldn't even try to adderss them all. But, I can share my approach. My philosophy is that the most important thing about a real estate website is that it works. And, I define "working" as generating leads.

Do you need the most expensive design to make your site generate leads? Not in my experience. I know of some pretty sorry looking sites that make tons of money for their owners. Do you need $1000/month of SEO? Not in my experience. There are any number of alternatives that produce good rankings and traffic.

Would I recommend that someone create an ugly site and do no SEO? Of course not.

I counsel clients that their website needs:

a pleasant, professional and welcoming design.
good tools and written information for their buyer and seller visitors (this is how I define "content").
good, clear navigation to make it easy for their visitors to find what they need.
to have a clear target market and marketing message.
to be created after they plan an SEO strategy.
to have good on-page SEO and an ongoing off-page SEO (or link building) program carried out on an on-going basis.

Having a beautiful design, to help agents present a message to a niche market very effectively is great. Weighing all the factors, however, I counsel clients to use their Internet marketing budget wisely. They need to add up the cost of:

graphic design
making the site easily navigable and doing good on-page optimization (which should be a given for any web designer in my opinion)
adding unique tools like market condition reports, neighborhood search engines, school information,interactive maps, etc.
creating good written content, even if it is mostly to satisfy the search engines; it also does serve the purpose mentioned previously of being a proof source for the agent's expertise
creating an effective marketing message to a targeted audience
funding on-going SEO activities

and then figure out how they will use the budget they have. Unless someone has an unlimited budget, I would recommend that they put most of their budget on the things that will really impact the ability of their website to generate leads. For me, graphic design can be done at many levels and should not be the main focus of a site's development.

Having good content (in its broadest definition) and good SEO is key. Certainly adding content on a regular basis, or setting up an effective blog (with a good interlinking strategy with the main site) helps, especially if the web owner is not doing any SEO. But, I agree with Win in that a good SEO program can offset the need for adding content regularly.

Kathleen

Real Estate Marketing -- Real Estate Websites - Real Estate Marketing Blog

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LocalRealEstateTeam@cox.net

Date: Jan 21, 2008

Win wrote: "Sound SEO techniques built right into their HTML web page coding from the start, along with seeking out in-bound or back links to help satisfy Google. I have many happy web clients who do nothing more than their "day" jobs and rarely lift a finger to change or add new content their sites."

I admire your efforts Win, (and Suzanne as well) for your continual and sharing posts. No matter how much you try to educate agents what works for web sites, it mostly goes on deaf ears. Time and time again you guys offer great advice and then the post below yours promotes how to get a free web site or an agent posts how nice a site looks and what do you think (usually they are generic at best), and even the continual question about which site is better... the $300 per year one or the $500 per year one like those will magically work by just buying one! Until agents figure out that generating leads that convert to business is worth your SEO (and/or Suzanne's design) fee, guess those who have figured out the web business will continue to flourish. Apparently, you can't lead a realtor to web site success if it costs them a few dollars entrance fee for a potential huge ROI !

Quite amazing how some agents can justify what they are worth to get their fee for a listing, but they can't justify any expense toward getting a website that works. If they only knew how good it could be.... We've received 26 leads, one phone call and two request to show so far from our sites today. Our loan partner calls and pre-qualifies them first before we contact them and we have never been busier when most everyone else in our office is complaining about no business. Heck, I don't mind sharing either as no one listens anyway. Nice conversing with you!

Drew Hartanov
Prudential Cal Realty
LocalRealEstateTeam@cox.net

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Epower Organizeit

Date: Jan 22, 2008

My question to the newbies and to the oldies who have a "web of people" (pardon the pun) doing their site & seo work: how many houses do you have to sell in a year to pay for your "life on the web" relative to real estate?

I'm not talking starting out costs, I refer to the ongoing never-ending maintenance costs, on top of the start up fees which can be, and often are, huge. And, to those who do their own work: if the same energy was put into actual real estate work, how much more money would those agents earn in a year? how would the time spent, instead, doing real estate work, equate to dollars in your pocket.

Has the web-site/SEO field become a make-work project for some who cash in, like snake-oil salesmen, on the lack of knowledge of the common REALTOR? It has in fact generated a whole new job definition where, if agents do not connect with the right people from the get-go they can create a monster with its mouth open. Always seek to converse first-hand with folks like Win and others, who have an actual and historical background in real estate before signing on any dotted line. And, most important, know what you own, what you think you own, and how you get to call it YOURS at the end of it all. Know your "exit strategy" up front. If the person you are dealing with does not want to address an exit strategy right from the beginning, run don't walk and get out of there. For starters, who actually owns your domain? and all the work related to it - NOW? Do you, as the agent of the day, lose it all when you change providers?

I fear that web sites have become real estate compulsions with some folks. And, as a result, agents are led to believe they need to spend on-going thousands of dollars to get there, and stay there (on the web). You may be surprised to learn that agents with a tiny page, mostly with only their name, address and phone number get a huge amount of business in some locales. Why? because they have a hundred per cent more visibility than their colleagues - is largely the reason why - and that's worth something too.

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Brampton real estate & Burlington real estate = http://www.carolyne.com
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LocalRealEstateTeam@cox.net

Date: Jan 22, 2008

Carolyne wrote: I fear that web sites have become real estate compulsions with some folks. And, as a result, agents are led to believe they need to spend on-going thousands of dollars to get there, and stay there (on the web). You may be surprised to learn that agents with a tiny page, mostly with only their name, address and phone number get a huge amount of business in some locales. Why? because they have a hundred per cent more visibility than their colleagues - is largely the reason why - and that's worth something too.

Hi CaroIyne, you are spot on about real estate sites have become compulsions with some folks. But, why not if spending $20K returns $100K-$150K ? Once you have a web site that works and top SERP's visibility, people easily find you and that is where they to go to find information. We don't compete with the local tiny page web sites of locally known highly respected agents who have local visibility. Our site is focused on the out of the area buyer who does not know a local realtor. We are found because our site is has good SE positions. Competition varies by area. It is entirely different for getting found on the SE's in an area of say 1M people vs. a smaller town of some 20,000. The on-going thousands of dollars we spend for presence on the internet is because we choose not to spend it on print advertising, mailers, calendars, note pads, etc. Nor do we cold call, work expired, door knock, etc. IMO, if the internet is not the focus of ones business, then trying to compete with a web site for business is nearly impossible. If you are not compulsive doing something that works in real estate, then you probably won't make it. We admire any agent who is successful, whether by door knocking, working expired listings, FSBO's or on the web. We simply choose to have our 100 per cent more visibility on the web as we want to capture our part of the 85% of the buyers that start their home search there. My fear is that agents in my area may actually become as compulsive with having a web site as we are and spend the thousands of dollars to get a return of 4-5 times the investment. It's no more compulsive that those that work their business by other means. What works for some and not for others is just one of the many reasons real estate is so interesting.

Drew Hartanov
Prudential Ca Realty
LocalRealEstateTeam@cox.net

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Dirk Johnson Vendor, sterling, VA

Date: Jan 22, 2008

Rich Hudson said:
"Fresh, relevant local content is spidered by all the major search
engines and will keep consumers coming back. I include listings as
part of the content package."

I agree. Some clarification is in order here, lest we create real
confusion. My previous comments were completely "SEO-centric". That
is, I tend to focus on the SEO aspects of a site, since that is the
side of this business that I live in.

I am not "anti-content" by any means. I am actually pro-content, all
the way. I just try to demand that the content be well-structured and
that it has a designed purpose, in advance of generating it. I am not
in the camp that says that all blogging is good blogging. Unless a
blog has a restrained business purpose and a focus, it can quickly
deteriorate into stream-of-consciousness words that have little
appeal to anyone else except the writer.

I my world, a website actually has two distinct "sections", if you
will. One is the more "public" side. That side holds the content that
is built to help a prospective client get acquainted with the agent
and the community. It is valuable and valid means of instilling
confidence in the visitor. Site visitors do want to see that the
agent is a participant in their community and that they know
something about it.

An agent can possibly use this more public section of the site to
generate goodwill within the community. At the extreme end, this
could take the form of creating a local "portal", consolidating local
items of interest, news, events listings, and community resources.
This will take considerable work, but if it is promoted well, it can
generate local traffic on it's merit, and earn a modest number of
free links or citations.

A less ambitious approach might be to partner with local non-profits
and charities to help raise their awareness. A lot of these
organizations do not have webmasters at the ready. By using your
agent site as the news outlet for the charity, it is possible to
become the de facto public relations outlet for a local charity.
Again, if it is well-promoted, it can generate goodwill, traffic, and
some links.

As you can see, on the public side of a site, you will need to
present extraordinary content in order to generate even a few
gratuitous links to it. Most of the public content that I have seen
on agents sites is simply not going to be gratuitously cited. Yes, it
serves the distinct purpose for the agent's site that we discussed,
but it is usually not very extraordinary.

The SEO section of a site's content are the pages that are structured
to attract very specific search traffic. If they are well-crafted
(and they should be), they can also be deployed on the "public side"
to explain the real-estate specific issues about a particular
community. The content on that page might include the price range of
homes, the types of homes, number of properties sold in the last
year, etc.

These SEO section pages are built specifically to attract search
traffic for terms like "Mytown real estate" and convey real
estate-specific information to visitors who land there after a
search. After all, that's what the site visitor wants if they are
searching for "Mytown real estate". They probably do not want
bothered with information about the local fruit festival. This is
where a lot of people get confused in the page development. If the do
manage to attract a searcher, but then they confuse the visitor by
presenting a page with content that is off-topic (i.e. the fruit
festival) , and does not satisfy the searcher's need for *Mytown real
estate information*. The searcher simply clicks away.

For SEO considerations, it is vital to have a well-developed "SEO
section" of the site. The reason is because the more "public side" of
a site has content that is specifically NOT focused on attracting
search traffic. It is more about the community itself. It might
attract search traffic for "Mytown schools" or "Mytown Fruit
Festival", but maybe not "Mytown real estate".

I think that well-developed real estate site has both a "public
section" and an "SEO section", each with it's own pages developed for
specific purposes, although there may be some overlap or dual-purpose
pages within that structure.

But, getting back to the initial argument from
Suzanne...well-developed content is a good thing, but just don't
expect the world to beat a path to it's door, in the from of free
links by the hundreds. Good content generally needs to be promoted in
order to get links to it. You do need the content in order to
validate that you have a legitimate website and not just a shell. But
you'll also need to promote it.

For most real estate agents, free links by the hundreds, based solely
on the strength of the content that is presented, is just wishful
thinking. It can happen, and some people also win the lottery. If you
want links in large quantity, you have to go and get them.

Good search traffic derives from three things...good content that is
well-optimized, and then links from other domains pointing to it. The
more the better. If you skip one of the three, you are handicapped in
the race for search traffic.

Best regards,

Dirk Johnson
Partner - Operations
DomainDrivers LLC
djohnson@domaindrivers.com
703-406-4698
http://domaindrivers.realtown.com
We're an approved RealTalk/RealTown vendor:
http://DomainDrivers.InternetCrusade.com

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