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Date: January 4, 2008

Please copy and paste a portion of the post you are responding to in order for others to follow the context of the thread. (**then delete this line**)
Many years years ago when I first became an agent, homebuyers would actually dive into our dumpsters to retrieve the thick MLS books that were published every 2 weeks and then thrown away . Aside from those  adventurous souls, we had total control of listing information. Yes, those books were bulky to carry around, and expensive for the MLS to print, but Realtors were the only source of listing information.Then came the internet, at first DOS (remember that?) and  later with color and  photos. No problem so far....it's just progress, right? Advances are good, right? Apparently, not always. And certainly not if the decisions were (are?) made by NAR board members with either personal gains to be had,  or benefits in the form  of . 
increased value of their stock holdings. Look to NAR management and their involvement in major corporate business in the mid 90's and you may find the reason we have lost control. Realtor.com has already succumbed to self destruction, losing much of its significance by selling or renting listing feeds to   just about every business entity that might benefit from it, and left us Realtor(R) Brokers and Agents  holding the bag.
  I loved those old books, and so did dozens of old-timers I know. One of the things I loved about them is that they were totally democratic publications. There were no "premium" advertising charges, since each listing had exactly the same amount of page space, and there was no personal promotion, or agency advertising. And ...YOU HAD TO BE A REALTOR TO HAVE ONE.
  It was, quite eloquently, a compilation of real estate listings for MLS members only. Now Realtors
spend millions to put themselves in front of their competition on the net. And the money flows out of our
pockets.  Do we sell more houses? No. Are buyers and sellers happier? No. Do buyers go to us first
for information? Maybe. Are we in the "center" of the transaction? Sometimes. I say let's try to put
the toothpaste back in the tube. It may take time, and be a tough job, but it can be done. Put pressure
on NAR, and hold that Board responsible for destroying our Real Estate Primacy! I say, let's get it back.
Is anyone out there willing to try? Or, is everyone out there still on their knees worshipping those who
control us?
If I have offended anyone who doesn't deserve it, I apologize. Others...bring it on.
Jeff Rosenfeld, Broker
Monroe Realty Center
Monroe, NY
 
 
    
   



Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
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Neal Adler, gri,abr, e-Pro Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Studio City,  CA

Date: January 4, 2008

RE: NAR Standards/MLS Rules
 
FYI, the maximum fine for an MLS violation is now $15,000. I'm sure that maximum COE violations will follow suit.  One can only wonder what a $15,000 MLS fine might look like.  I recently was on a conference call to be recertified as a CAR Pro Standards Trainer and one of the participants (without going into details) gave us an example of  pretty egregious conduct by an MLS only member where a hefty fine could be levied.  So if you have MLS only members commit serious violations they can be hit pretty hard.  If that's the case, remember they have to be MLS violations not COE violations.

Neal Adler, GRI, e-PRO, ABR
Associate Manager, Rodeo Realty
California Association of REALTORS(R)Director, Region 18
Member Professional Standards Committees
California Association of REALTORS(R)
Southland Regional and Beverly Hills Greater Los Angeles Associations of REALTORS(R)
California Association of REALTORS(R)Certified Professional Standards Trainer
www.nealadler.com
Direct 818-308-8679
Cell 818-282-2516
Pager 818-228-9999
Toll free 888-216-7530
Fax 818-761-7277

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MarkJohnJay@GMail.com

Date: January 5, 2008

 

Neal Adler wrote in part:

Why would not allowing non-REALTORS(r) to join the MLS be a violation of anti-trust laws?  


We as REALTORS(R) have every right to protect our business. This is our livelihood and we should defend our way of doing business just like any other legitimate business.

tOMe responds with misinformation:

 

…Because the MLS is the only compilation (at least the major compilation) of homes for sale; keeping that information from those who are licensed to sell real estate just because you do not belong to the NAR club, is considered restraint of trade.

I would also point out that non REALTORS who wish access to an MLS do not get it for free so the argument that WE pay for it and they don't does not hold water.

 

Mark Jay comments:

 

….Classic “Toms”/REALTOR enemy argument….  Neal doesn’t mention ANYTHING about licensees who are not NAR member REALTORS getting access to MLS for free; so why bring that into the discussion except to confuse the issue?

 

But more importantly, the Courts have held in recent cases that it is NOT an anti-trust violation to require REALTOR membership to obtain MLS membership.  tOMe KNOWS this.  tOMe KNOWS that it is perfectly proper for a Board of REALTORS—in all but a small handful of states—to require REALTOR membership to obtain MLS membership and services.

 

tOM eARLy and Tom Hathaway were strong supporters of Attorney David Barry and his self referenced REALTOR “hostage” clients Jay Reifert, Sherry Edwards, Matthew Prencipe and Lois Hekker.  In all the cases—except Lois Hekker’s—the various Courts ruled that how REALTOR owned MLS entities do business is perfectly legal and proper.  ….And Lois Hekker would have lost also but for the fact that she died before her case concluded.

 

Remember that tOMe is among the small group of participants here who follow the NAEBA code of Ethics rather than the REALTOR code of Ethics.  Since the NAEBA Code of Ethics don’t require tOMe to be honest in his dealings with other licensees or consumers in general, tOMe is allowed to spread the kind of misinformation contained in his post above and other venues.  In other words; it’s best NOT to take anything tOMe writes at face value—there’s almost always a cloaked agenda he’s pushing and that agenda is to discredit REALTOR leadership, REALTOR practice methodology and REALTORS in general.

Mark Jay, e-Pro

REALTOR and Mortgage Consultant

414-771-7713  Voice

262-853-6001 Voice

Southeast Wisconsin MLS Region

Mark@MarkJayRealty.com

 




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Linda k. Smith Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Los Angeles,  CA

Date: January 5, 2008

Jeff Rosenfeld wrote.....those books were bulky to carry around, and expensive for the MLS to print, but Realtors were the only source of listing information.
 
I loved those books.  I even came across some pages that I had torn out and put in a client's folder years ago when going thru files recently.  Did I tell you I loved those books?  I could write in the margins, hi-lite things, tear out pages and lite the fireplace with them.  AND we Realtors had the only books in town.  If a Buyer wanted to know about a house, he had to CALL US!!  Yep, I loved those books.  I didn't have to worry about the power going out, computer going down or someone coping my listing to their website.  I loved those books!!!  People recognized the "book" and automatically knew you were a Realtor.  Many a contact was made just by carrying that book.  Yep,  I LOVED THOSE BOOKS.
 
Linda K. Smith, Realtor
Property Manager
So. California......818-472-0090
No. California......209-210-7776
Linda4properties@aol.com



Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
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Norman Tuttle Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Quincy,  MA

Date: January 5, 2008

 

Jeff Rosenfeld wrote.....those books were bulky to carry around, and expensive for the MLS to print, but Realtors were the only source of listing information.

I loved those books…came across pages torn out and put in a client's folder….  Did I tell you I loved those books?  Buyer …had to CALL US!!  People recognized the "book" and automatically knew you were a Realtor.  Many a contact was made just by carrying that book.  Yep,  I LOVED THOSE BOOKS.

Ours were distributed after a Thursday AM Meeting of 200+ Realtors, coffee and pastries..many a personal contact made there, a social/business event created a camaraderie missing now…not to mention all the other virtues commented on previously…Ah, for the GOOD OLD DAYS…..

Norman E Tuttle

Granite Group, Realtors

Quincy, MA 02170-2702

617-429-7749

Norman@TuttleRealtor.com

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Mary Starkey Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Springboro,  OH

Date: January 6, 2008

Jeff Rosenfeld wrote.....those books were bulky to carry around, and expensive for the MLS to print, but Realtors were the only source of listing information

 

I was just wondering that if the MLS books were not accessible to the public, then why does the MLS online have to be available to the public.  The Cincinnati Board of Realtors do not make their MLS available to the general public.  Instead, the public has to go through a broker’s individual website to view it online and only if the broker has paid to allow that. Is it the individual board’s decision to make the MLS available to the public?

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Melina Tomson Licensed Real Estate Broker,  OR

Date: January 7, 2008

I belong to an MLS that does not require Realtor membership.  It is such a non-issue here. First of all, you are combining the Realtor code of ethics with the MLS rules.  They are two separate entities even when Realtor membership is required.  Our MLS has rules, and YES part of the rules and by-laws stipulate how disputes are going to be resolved, and YES as part of membership of the MLS you are agreeing to follow the rules.  NAR is not a co-op, the MLS is.  Our rules are very specific.

I personally think they need to be two separate entities in order to ensure proper competition in the marketplace.  When Realtor membership is not required the MLS rules just stipulate all of those things anyway.  I also think that requiring Realtor membership, makes being a Realtor meaningless.  I am a Realtor, but I feel that the designation is close to worthless since it is not a select group, or a voluntary choice for many. 

I find article 12 interesting. In Oregon, the brokerage, agent, and principal broker have to be on all advertising.  In fact starting Jan 2008, they actually stipulated that the font used for licensee information can't be bigger than the principal broker's.  Our state laws are pretty clear about advertising here, and I can't remember the last time I saw things that you all are talking about.  That kind of advertising here is a GUARANTEE to lose your license. 

Maybe they are more strict here?  I mean an agent got a suspension for doing a CMA on a home that was listed with someone else, and another agent got suspended for trying to help a potential client terminate a listing with another agent and list with him.  (I personally agree with those suspensions). 

Oregon requires 120 hours of class, and a to pass a 200 question test in order to be a licensee (we are a broker only state, no salespeople).  We have bad agents here, don't get me wrong, but some of things talked about here, I just don't see or hear about.

Melina Tomson, MS
ABR, e-PRO
melina@tomsonburnham.com
www.TomsonBurnham.com
ph: 503-371-6515
fax: 503-588-1628

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Linda Grissette Licensed Real Estate Broker,  St. Charles,  MO

Date: January 7, 2008

Remember that tOMe is among the small group of participants here who follow
the NAEBA code of Ethics rather than the REALTOR code of Ethics. Since the
NAEBA Code of Ethics don’t require tOMe to be honest in his dealings with
other licensees or consumers in general, tOMe is allowed to spread the kind
of misinformation contained in his post above and other venues. In other
words; it’s best NOT to take anything tOMe writes at face value—there’s
almost always a cloaked agenda he’s pushing and that agenda is to discredit
REALTOR leadership, REALTOR practice methodology and REALTORS in general.

Mark Jay strikes again.

As far as I know, he has never met tOMe in person and yet he continues to
make statements that could result in a slander statement. Since tOMe is a
member of NAR and all members have to state that they will abide by the
REALTOR Code of Ethics, a true statement would be "tOMe is among the small
group of participants here who follow the NAEBA Code of Ethics in addition
to the REALTOR Code of Ethics.

Mark seems to come out of the woodwork every few months and starts his
attacks. He seems to be wanting to make sure that all new people will know
his slanted version of the "truth". Sometimes I am amazed that it hasn't
reached the level of a slander suit yet! I would consider it a lesson in
the "flat" medium of e-mail, but in this case it has happened over and over
again...for years.

Linda Grissette, JIM, GRI, LTG, ePRO Certified
Broker/Associate, River City Real Estate, St. Louis Area
Linda@Grissette.com http://www.FindStCharlesCountyRealEstate.com
Get the tools you need, http://www.RealEstateMarketingHelp.com

PS. This is my first post since River City Real Estate bought out my old
company! I am now the trainer (but still listing and selling) at River
City Real Estate. I'm quite excited about the change!

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Date: January 13, 2008

Do you know if anyone will actually enforce the revisions to Article 12 of the COE?  If so, who and how?  There are so many stealth sites around that most consumers would mistakenly take for something put out by the local C of C.  It only makes sense to expand, make more clear plus enforce this article.  Does anyone know how this will be done???
Bonnie Cox
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Gene Carey Licensed Real Estate Broker,  IL

Date: January 13, 2008

Bonnie - I heard that they have already purchased several black Suburbans with tinted glass and are ready to start training the MLS police.
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