Welcome to the New RealTown! Submit Feedback
Member Login | Join RealTown
The Real Estate Network
RealTown  Community  RealTalk  Referrals

RealTown's RealTalk

Back

Bookmark and Share  

Create New Discussion Digest Archive

Date: December 31, 2007

Gary wrote, " Further, they don’t include the name of their brokerage, which
does not violate state law, but COE."

Gary,

My understanding of CA law is that the agent MUST include their Broker's
name in the ad. The only exception might be if they themselves have a
Broker's License.As such, these postings are infact in violation of the
state law, at least in CA.

Nadim Aziz, ePRO, SRES
Broker
Paradigm Home Loans

Associate Broker
Coldwell Banker

ph: 408-267-0562
fx: 408-448-8750
email: Nadim@esjn.net
www.NadimAziz.Com
www.cambrianhomes.biz

To Top Quote   Reply
Suzanne Hathcock stephens Vendor,  Battle Ground,  WA

Date: December 31, 2007



>
> What NAR should do is come up with an alternative name to the MLS,
> do the proper trademarks, define the rules of use for members, and
> then have the Associations change to use this new term. With so many
> REALTORS out there now, it wouldn't take long for this new name to
> stick. Then they can protect this term the proper way rather than
> trying to cripple members use of a term that's been out in the
> public for YEARS without any controls. Keith Byrd www.SloCountyHomes.com
> San Luis Obispo, CA

That would be a great project for NAR to take up, right after they
finish getting everyone to follow their rules for typing the
REALTOR(R) trademark... heck, maybe even after they simply get
everyone who posts to the NAR Web site to follow the rules. -:)

Suzanne

>

Suzanne Hathcock Stephens
Point2 Design Partner
http://www.SuzStephens.com

1100 NW 9th Way
Battle Ground, WA 98604
Phone/fax: 360-666-0881

To Top Quote   Reply
Robert King Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Saint Petersburg,  FL

Date: December 31, 2007

I think Gary may be onto something, keep on thinkin' it through Gary, you're almost there.
 
"That is the gist of the argument here, I think.  I would say about half the listings on Craigslist do not include the fact that the person posting the listing is an agent."
 
This is where the train runs off the tracks my friend.  You do not have to be an AGENT to Market Real Estate, so therefore you do not have to comply with NAR COE or anybody else's COE!.  You don't even have to be a "Licensee" nor belong to any association to Market Real Estate.  This is where our problem becomes paramount in our profession.  The MLS has a set of rules that all Realtors are obliged to follow, where as the WWW has no requirements what-so-ever, not even licensure!  In short as long as we voluntarily allow IDX (Internet Data Exchange) then the cross pollination of our ((("Privileged Information"))) will be made available for every "Marketeer" and "Pirate" to do their bidding.  Our problem is that the restrictions afforded us under the NAR COE do not apply to the Marketeers, Licensees (Non-Realtors), Pirates on the high seas of cyber world surfing and the most questionable Internet thieves ((((Affiliates)))).  Most states require that all affiliations be disclosed, but that only applies to the real world not virtual world affiliations!  The laws that apply to the real world are not the same laws that apply to the virtual world (cyber world).  The same goes for all ETHICAL standards of practice! 
 
NAR and the Boards of Real Estate have a strict set of rules and guidelines unfortunately those rules and guidelines only apply toward it's "Members"!  Who are those ((((Members)))) any Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to pay their dues for access!  Until we as an Organization and Association take back what is rightfully ours!!!!!! the Rouges and Pirates will prevail under the current laws.  Whether you realize it or not, where do you think all these lead generators get their LEADS?  We provide our leads via IDX and their Affiliations, and then we buy them back for monthly fees.  Stay in there Gary you are on the right path. 
 
The biggest problem we face doesn't have to do with reworking the mouse trap as much as it has to do with Internet Affiliations that sell the information we provide back to us the Realtors!  Most people fail to UNDERSTAND a "Licensee" is not necessarily a Realtor.  A"Licensee" is a person who has met the minimum requirements to conduct real estate transactions with in the state they reside in.  A Realtor is a person who not only has met the minimum requirements of state licensure law but a Realtor is a dues paying Board of Real Estate Member that is obligated under the State and National Associations to abide by the rules. 
 
We are basically a bunch of Union Workers.  We work under a code which is "assumed" to be honorable in the eyes of the Public.  Unfortunately, the general public has a different opinion of our code and honor and the only reason is because of all the ((((Affiliations)))) and Non-Cooperation of everybody across the playing field.  In short, (no pun intended) we have become our worst enemy.  Our image in the eyes of the public has become questionable!  If that were not so then our sales would be moving in a positive direction and the value of real estate would be rising not falling.  For the past 7 years we have been treating Real Estate as an Investment tool and forgetting that it's more about a roof over somebody's head than an Investment.  Real Estate is becoming more like the Stock Market Investment, rather than what it's initial purpose was intended to be, Land Ownership.  But that was not the original intent for Real Estate!  When you play a short in the Real Estate Market somebody is going to get burned personally.  That's what's going on right now.  We have a whole lot of shorts going on and everybody is Unhappy!  How can that be????  We have the most advanced form of Communication known to mankind!!!!  We have the Internet!!!!  Unfortunately along with that Internet we have a whole lot of ((((Mis-Information))))).  It starts with IDX (Internet Data Exchange).  We may need to RE-THINK our values and our conduct and how it may be best to just allow the MLS system to be the Tool of Realtors, not the Re-Interpretation of the Marketeers, Pirates and Tire Kickers looking for a another scalp to hang on the wall of success.  I'm always amazed by the intellect of a great former founding father of our Great Nation when he coined the reality of a Transaction.  "A transaction is when to people agree and believe that what they are about to receive is of equal or greater value than what they are about to part with".  That statement is not about compromising our values, it's about agreement between opposing opinions.  Who better to determine that than someone who should be a non-beneficiary to that transaction?  Who would you rather trust a Realtor, Pirate, Marketeer or the Opposing Party to the transaction?  I'd pick a Realtor every time. Why?  Because they have a code of ethics that is suppose to be of higher standards than a Pirate, Marketeer, and the Opposing Party.  But that's not how it is in our system.  Why?  Because we have to many ((((Affiliates)))) with their hand out..... saying, "Monthly fee, Annual Membership, Designations, Badges of Honor" that only the choir understands while 80% of the general public is shopping online for their next venture.  I think we've sold the farm and don't realize it.  We don't need a Revival we need Resuscitation!!!
 
Robert King
Broker/Consultant
Charles Rutenberg, Realtors
Clearwater, Florida
To Top Quote   Reply
freds@sempre.com

Date: December 31, 2007

 
>>Nadim Aziz wrote in part:
>>My understanding of CA law is that the agent MUST include their Broker's
name in the ad. The only exception might be if they themselves have a
Broker's License.As such, these postings are infact in violation of the
state law, at least in CA.

The following is from the DRE website but does not include new rules, if any, for 2008.

>From Regulations of the Real Estate Commissioner (California):
"2770.1. Advertising – License Designation.
Use of the terms broker, agent, Realtor, loan correspondent or the abbreviations bro., agt., or other similar terms or abbreviations, is deemed sufficient identification to fulfill the designation requirements of Section 10140.6 of the Business and Professions Code."

What is the citation for the requirement to include the broker's name in the ad?

CAR Legal Q&A entitled, "Advertising by REALTORS" appears to me to indicate that there is no need to have the brokers name in any ad.
<http://www.car.org/index.php?id=MzIyODE=> (CAR membership required)

Fred
fsalzer@sempre.com
Poway, CA

To Top Quote   Reply
Jackie Hawley Home Buyer / Home Seller,  Clarkston,  MI

Date: December 31, 2007

Robert-

I don't think you can lump non-Realtor agents in with the lead pimps. The only difference between a Realtor and a non-Realtor licensee is one pays dues and one doesn't. It's not uncommon in some rural areas to have great agents who are not Realtors. I know one agent north of me who is one of the most ethical agents I've dealt with, who likes to say she doesn't need an R after her name to have ethics. And she's right. There are also a lot of unethical Realtors. Paying dues doesn't guarantee ethics.

The problem with Article 12 is it's attempt to micro manage NAR members and will most likely put us at a disadvantage. They're also a little late in coming up with these rules. Too many of us have owned domain names that include the term MLS. Also, several of us have been using MLS in our meta-tags just like I use FHA and MSHDA in my meta tags. They haven't been able to enforce the rules that are already in existence - improper use of Realtor in domain names, advertising in print without our brokers' name and address/phone number or even advertising without disclosing that we are licensed. And on and on.

I don't see how anyone can police every NAR members' meta tags and key words. I also don't see the difference between print advertising and on line advertising. I didn't notice ANYTHING stating it's unethical to advertise in print using the term "MLS."

As far as the IDX- our multiple listing services need to stop allowing membership to non-Realtors and the rest of us need to stop buying the leads. No customers- no lead pimps.

Jackie Hawley
Keller Williams Realty
Clarkston, Michigan
Jackie@JackieHawley.com
www.miRelocation.com
www.miMLSlistings.com

 

To Top Quote   Reply
Gary Frimann Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Gilroy, CA,  CA

Date: December 31, 2007

  “My understanding of CA law is that the agent MUST include their Broker's
  name in the ad. The only exception might be if they themselves have a
  Broker's License.As such, these postings are infact in violation of the
  state law, at least in CA.”

 

No, that is not the case.  They must disclose if they are an agent, such as running an ad for a rental or sale of a house, but not their brokerage.

What shocks me is when they do it on Craigslist, and don’t disclose they are an agent, and they want people to think it is a FSBO or a rental without an agent.  Clearly misleading…

I was just as shocked myself, when I heard this.  It is only a COE violation.  Oh, and by the way, a team name does not count as a brokerage name.  They should make it a law, as in CA, a Salesperson can use a nickname, but a Broker must use their real name, and it makes it very hard to track down agents who use nicknames, and you sometimes cannot find them on the DRE site just by their last name… 

Here’s another law I’d love to see passed this coming year.  If someone changes their address, they should have to notify the DRE in “x” number of days, much like a driver’s license or Notary Commission.  I am trying to track down another agent, who has moved, and has not changed his address and is no longer affiliated with his old broker.   I think the strongest argument FOR this would be to help track down deadbeat Moms and Dads.  That alone should be enough to get some legislator rolling on this simple rule…(in the old days, when they used to send out the Real Estate Bulletin, it was easy to tell when someone moved, as it came back in the mail—now it is sent electronically.)

Gary Frimann

Signature Homes & Estates / Eagle Ridge Realty

“Our Performance Will Move You!”®

(408) 846-8284  toll free (800) 950-8284

Serving all of Silicon Valley

www.EagleRidgeRealty.net

www.EagleRidgeNeighborhood.com

www.SignatureHomesAndEstates.com

www.WestGilroyNeighbors.com

www.Independent-Brokers.com  

 

 

To Top Quote   Reply
freds@sempre.com

Date: December 31, 2007

 
>>Gary Frimann wrote in part:
>>They must disclose if they are an agent, such as running an ad for a rental or sale of a house, but not their brokerage. What shocks me is when they do it on Craigslist, and don’t disclose they are an agent, and they want people to think it is a FSBO or a rental without an agent.<<

Disclosure that one is an agent is not necessarily required if one is advertising property offered for rent. Please see California Business and Professions Section 10140.6. From that section: "The provisions of this section shall not apply to classified rental advertisements reciting the telephone number at the premises of the property offered for rent or the address of the property offered for rent."

Fred
fsalzer@sempre.com
Poway, CA

To Top Quote   Reply
mail@davemehta.com

Date: January 1, 2008

 

As far as the IDX- our multiple listing services need to stop allowing membership to non-Realtors and the rest of us need to stop buying the leads. No customers- no lead pimps.

I support you whole heartily. How can we encourage our directors (NAR, MCAR) for this? Directors will get less perks.!

Dave Mehta

Re/Max New Trend

Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304

To Top Quote   Reply

Date: January 1, 2008

> What NAR should do is come up with an alternative name to the MLS,
> do the proper trademarks, define the rules of use for members, and
> then have the Associations change to use this new term. With so many
> REALTORS out there now, it wouldn't take long for this new name to
> stick. Then they can protect this term the proper way rather than
> trying to cripple members use of a term that's been out in the
> public for YEARS without any controls. Keith Byrd www.SloCountyHomes.com
> San Luis Obispo, CA

That would be a great project for NAR to take up, right after they
finish getting everyone to follow their rules for typing the
REALTOR(R) trademark... heck, maybe even after they simply get
everyone who posts to the NAR Web site to follow the rules. -:)

Suzanne
***************************
That may be asking the fxx to guard the henhouse.  This is the same NAR that has never seen fit to honor their own member franchisee's trademarks.  Open your latest magazines and count the C-21, Pru, R/M, KW, etc.  It kind of puts the goose and the gander on the same playing field.
Greg Goulet, CRB, CRS, GRI
RealSharp Systems

Email: Sales@RealSharp.com
Website: www.RealSharp.com
Authorized LetterWriter & PowerSites sales consultant

To Top Quote   Reply
John Johnson Licensed Real Estate Agent,  CA

Date: January 1, 2008

Previous posts:

As far as the IDX- our multiple listing services need to stop allowing membership to non-Realtors and the rest of us need to stop buying the leads. No customers- no lead pimps.

I support you whole heartily. How can we encourage our directors (NAR, MCAR) for this? Directors will get less perks.!

To deny MLS membership to a non-REALTOR® would probably violate  Anti-Trust laws.  I believe that our Directors are volunteers that donate a great deal of their time to the benefit of members. Which perks are you referring to?

John Johnson
Tarbell, REALTORS®
Hemet, California 92545

 

To Top Quote   Reply

Reply to Discussion:





  • Market Leader
  • Top Producer
  • Point2
  • Listing Domains
  • Go e-PRO
  • RIS Media
  • REALTOR Benefits Program
  • Realtor Benefits
  • Agent's First Choice
  • Allison James
  • Inman Connect
  • iHouse Websites
  • Old Republic
  • MyOnlineNeighborhood
  • Matthew Ferrara
  • WebsTarget