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Date: December 13, 2007

Hi Dean

It is imperative for your own survival that you make Business Relationship contracts with your buyers at the very first opportunity you have!

I would explain this to your buyers if they have interest in this home and see if it is possible in your area to include in the Agreement that the SELLER and BUYER agree that the seller pay a fee of $XX.XX  to the Buyer's Broker at settlement.

If they don't have interest in this home, get them signed up ASAP and keep this as a future reference.  Include a copy of the B.R. Agreement in a Buyers Package that you can send via mail to out of town clients so they are expecting to sign this when they meet with you.

As for discounters, some may be disappearing as the market tightens - unable to make enough revenue with the fees they charge to have a successful business plan.

Good luck!

Tina Walsh

Long & Foster, RE, Inc. (Philadelphia/Bucks County/Montgomery County Region)

Direct:  215-489-8026

Fax:  215-795-2264

Web:  http://www.PAHomeShop.com

Email:  Tina@PAHomeShop.com

 

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Date: December 13, 2007

At 04:27 PM 12/13/2007, you wrote:
RealTalk Message
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Subject: RE: 1% sell side, thanks a rant load!
Author: Robert King (rlking@sprintmail.com)
Date: December 13th, 2007, 9:35 AM PST
ID: 004NTV
Who ever made the following statement is only sharing a HALF TRUTH to the entire equation!
 
"Re: As an ABR we were taught that it is our responsibility of the buyer's agent to find all homes available that would fit our client's needs, regardless of
the commission base"
 
An ABR is nothing more than an agent who is working with a buyers interest in mind.

Wrong, an ABR is someone who has taken some classes and been educated in the representation of a buyer and how to do that in a traditional real estate setting while keeping his broker out of trouble.  What you describe above is a buyers AGENT.   Big difference between someone with a certification and acting as a fiduciary.

Regardless of the compensation offered, the degree of representation will only reflect the service being offered to the parties, according to MLS rules and regs!!!  An ABR is not representing the seller but is working with the buyer, regardless of the degree of representation.

Please Robert, ABR and ABRMs work with sellers all the time.  The only certification in existence today which would recognized someone as full time buyers AGENT would be CEBA and CEBAM.  

  This is why all MY EBA agreements require a minimum fee of X% less escrow deposit for my services.

Do these agreements allow you to switch to dual agency in the event of an in house transaction?  If so, how can they be called and Exclusive Buyer Agency agreement.

  Let's say my buyer is wanting me to find them a house, and they want my undivided attention and representation!  It only makes since that the buyer should be willing to guarantee my compensation for services if they require my undivided attention.  Right?  This is the Risk factor!  If compensation through the MLS is inadaquate, then who is going to pay the difference according to the EBA Agreement?  THE BUYER, who pays for it anyway!!!!


In this we agree.

tOMe

Thomas A. Early, Master CEBA
425 W. Schrock Rd.
Westerville Ohio 43081
Serving the Greater Columbus Ohio area
mailto:TomEarly@BuyersBrokerage.com
http://BuyersBrokerage.com
100% Buyer Representation 100% of the Time
Past President of the National Association of
Exclusive Buyer Agents (NAEBA) http://NAEBA.org
NAEBA: 1-800-786-1570
Buyers Brokerage 1-614-890-2722

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Jay Steeves Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Southington,  CT

Date: December 13, 2007

WOW, You folks have really beat this well deserving horse to death...I agree that a buyer agency is very important and with the advent of the lower commisons being offered..maybe all agents will make this part of the process...regardless of the laws in any particular state...Just think if not required in your state..HOW PROFESSIONAL WOULD YOU LOOK if you worked your business like the professiional you are supposed to be... Now as for Deans situation...Why not right the offer that includes the higher commission you deserve...and let the seller and the sellers agent negotiate with the extra commission included..The same way we do in a commercial deal if the sellers agent states that there is no fee for the buyer agent..
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Melina Tomson Licensed Real Estate Broker,  OR

Date: December 13, 2007

So Dean,

I hope you feel thoroughly chastised by the group for not having a buyer agency agreement! :)

I encourage you not to make an offer contingent on the seller paying a higher commission.  The listing contract which spells that out is an entirely different contract, that you DON'T WANT to interfere with, so...if they really like the house, have them sign a buyer agency agreement stating your desired compensation, and then ask the seller to pay that much more in closing costs to the buyer.  Its the same difference, it just shows up on the buyer side instead of the seller side.

Tina said: As for discounters, some may be disappearing as the market tightens - unable to make enough revenue with the fees they charge to have a successful business plan.

While I know that Foxton's (or whatever that large one was) just went bankrupt, I know in Salem, OR that the discounters are alive and thriving.  Not that they are actually selling anything, but they are getting tons of listings.  What I am seeing is a major shift on the MLS though.  We used to be fairly predictable with commission compensations, and I am seeing everything from $1,000 (on a $600,000 home) to 5%. 

I'd tell you that the low commissions are just discounters but they are not. A CB agent was offering 1% on her listings.  I don't think it's just the discounters that are going to be hurting. I am seeing a shift in the larger brokerages, offering less BAC in order to recoup the additional advertising costs they are carrying for so many listings not selling.  Brokerages that can adapt to the market changes are the ones that are going to survive this downturn. Some discounters will go by the wayside, but I would not be surprised to see some of the large local franchises take a hit as well.  The overhead in operating the costs of the buildings alone, may out some of them under.

 Melina Tomson, MS
ABR, e-PRO
melina@tomsonburnham.com
www.TomsonBurnham.com
ph: 503-371-6515
fax: 503-588-1628

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Robert King Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Saint Petersburg,  FL

Date: December 14, 2007

In Melina's response to Dean regarding dead horses:
 
"I hope you feel thoroughly chastised by the group for not having a buyer agency agreement"!
 
At what point in any real estate transaction does the seller contribute anything other than the deed and keys?  And at that same point in time does the buyer offer anything other than consideration for the deed and keys?  Is there really a difference in compensation being offered or extracted from a transaction that doesn't require somebody to pay for it, whether it's out of the seller's equity or just a kindness on the part of the buyer? 
 
We use Listing Agreements so cooperating agents understand the playing field and responsibility of the seller and the amount of compensation offered for a cooperative buyer through our local MLS.  We use a Buyer's Broker Agreement for the same reason with the exception we do not disseminate that openly as we do through the IDX Listing Information.  In the past the only way a buyer could get <<information>> about a listed property was to call the listing broker or call a member (sub-agent) of the MLS.  We don't do it that way any longer.  Why?  Because the WWW does it for us without the aid of a questionable Sub who is obligated to the seller's interest because of "agency relationship". 
 
There is a great gulf between buyers/sellers and agents of both parties.  It's the Listing Agreement and the Buyer's Agreement that keeps the representation segregated and at the same time allow negotiation to happen between the parties and their agents.  If there is no Listing agreement then how does a buyers agent know they will get paid?  If the buyer is not willing to trust there agent to do there job then how does the buyer's agent prove a procuring cause, after all the buyer only needs to beware?  The only solution that guarantees payment is an exclusive right to sell agreement regardless of who represents who and to what degree representation is provided.  However, when disagreement arises in regard to compensation owed for services a Buyer's Broker Agreement is the first document the Arbitration Officer wants to see subsequent to an MLS Listing Agreement!  It's called good business to get your buyer's and seller's agreements in writing.  Which brings up the real question!  What does <<Representation>> mean???  I can understand what representation means to the seller, "Highest and Best Price".  I can understand what representation means to the buyer, "Lowest and Best Price".  Everything else is in the contract written by legal beagles.  If you actually think about it, isn't representation the same for both parties, "how do I get the most for the least"?  Remember the interest of the buyer and seller is how to get to closing with the least amount of aggravation.  So who do you Trust! 
 
We all want to lay claim to the self serving position, the commission is not an issue, even NAR claims representation is not determined by compensation.  So where does the commission come into the scenario?  It depends on who provides the funds to close?  Last time I checked the only money on the table on the day of closing is the buyers.  I've never known a seller to pay a dime out of their own pocket to sell a home!!  I've seen them take less equity, but that's always been determined by the offer from a cooperating buyer.   The issue boils down to the fact, is the seller willing to fork over a portion of the equity to get a buyer at the cost of a listing agreement or through their own efforts (FSBO).  So how does a Realtor(s) get paid regardless of the amount of commission being offered or requested, regardless of whether there is a listing agreement or not?  If there is no listing agreement then it's a FSBO, you are on your own.  But if there is a listing agreement, then it all boils down to the Type of Listing we are discussing. 
 
If the listing agreement is an Exclusive Right to Sell then the cooperating agent is protected by the MLS Agreement based on the information disclosed in the MLS.  Now if the listing type is anything other than an exclusive right to sell, then the offer of compensation is determined by procuring cause and any agreements between the parties.  I contend that a Buyer's Brokerage Agreement would be difficult to enforce if the listing is not an Exclusive Right to Sell agreement.  I'm not saying that the agreement is not enforceable.  But if the buyer claims that their interest was not being served with a provable explanation, then the only recourse would be to fight or flight.  Who takes a buyer to court and wins, if the buyer can prove their interest was not being served?  This is when buyer beware becomes important to the buyer.  This is when due diligence becomes important to the agent.  The agent is going to have to prove based on the evidence presented by the buyer that they did not breach their relationship and representation.  The board of realtors is not going to come to your aid unless there is a listing agreement, then it would boil down to the TYPE OF LISTING.  The board is only concerned with Listed Properties through members.  That's why the Exclusive Brokerage (Agency) listing or limited service listing, and or non-represent seller must be disclosed in the MLS information sheet.  Unfortunately not all boards of real estate require that information to be disclosed, that's a REAL PROBLEM especially when you have cross pollination of information from different boards of real estate across counties and local jurisdictions.  If you'll notice that <<information>> is NEVER exposed to the buyer over the WWW!!!!  Why?  Because we are all working to close!!!!  Once the buyer becomes aware of the fact they are providing all the funds to close then the game is up!  You see, regardless of how much we all think we are worth, we aren't worth anything if we can't produce a closing!!!!  That is the fact and the real world, nothing virtual about that!!!  So until we all find agreement between the parties we are all just hoping the property closes with no strings attached and belligerent attitudes flaring up, especially at the closing table where the rubber does meet the road.  Buyer's Brokerage Agreements are as important and as enforceable as Listing Agreements and necessary to prove your worth.  If you are not using them then you will be doomed to selling used cars only, where the buyer knows their interest is not being served but still purchase cars from the Used Car Salesman! (no gender specificity intended)
 
Robert King
Broker/Consultant
Charles Rutenberg, Realtors
Clearwater, Florida
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Judi Bryan Licensed Real Estate Broker,  Carol Stream,  IL

Date: December 14, 2007

The greatest disservice that the bait and switch discounters do

to our industry is telling  the public  the message that we are not worth

what we earn.  After further review I despise their dishonesty

"We will sell your home for as little as XXXX"  The bait.

And at the listing appointment " but that does not include MLS participation"

The switch. 

 

DVC

 

It’s sad that long ago any semblance of “truth in advertising” seems to have gone by the wayside!  I’ve complained for years about the “it” in real estate.  You know the one…”we’ll do it for XXXX”, “we can do it for pennies on the dollar”, etc.  They make the consumer believe that we all have the same “list of duties, and standard of care” and everyone, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY CHARGE, completes the same list…and completes it to the same degree!  We all know that’s not true…but, unfortunately, we’re not letting the consumer know in any meaningful way.

 

I’ve never worked for Century 21, but years ago they ran a string of outstanding ads.  The did a series for sellers, and a series for buyers…all with basically the same message…”if selling/buying your house were THIS EASY, you WOULDN’T NEED Century 21”.  I thought the message was clear in each ad...getting a home bought or sold ISN’T all that easy….things CAN go wrong…which is why you need a professional in your corner.  Always thought NAR should hire whoever it was that created those campaigns!!!!

 

JudiB

 

 

Judi Bryan, Broker . . . . . . . . . . .email: Judi@HomesLady.com

RE/MAX Accord . . . . . . . . . . . . Direct:  (630) 605-8902

On the web: www.HomesLady.com

e-Pro® Certified Internet Professional

ACRE™ Accredited Consultant in Real Estate

ACREis a RealTown Approved Vendor and has its Seal of Approval

 


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Rich Hudson Information Technology,  San Diego,  CA

Date: December 14, 2007

It’s sad that long ago any semblance of “truth in advertising” seems to have gone by the wayside!  I’ve complained for years about the “it” in real estate.  You know the one…”we’ll do it for XXXX”, “we can do it for pennies on the dollar”, etc.  They make the consumer believe that we all have the same “list of duties, and standard of care” and everyone, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY CHARGE, completes the same list…and completes it to the same degree!  We all know that’s not true…but, unfortunately, we’re not letting the consumer know in any meaningful way.

I’ve never worked for Century 21, but years ago they ran a string of outstanding ads.  The did a series for sellers, and a series for buyers…all with basically the same message…”if selling/buying your house were THIS EASY, you WOULDN’T NEED Century 21”.  I thought the message was clear in each ad...getting a home bought or sold ISN’T all that easy….things CAN go wrong…which is why you need a professional in your corner.  Always thought NAR should hire whoever it was that created those campaigns!!!!

JudiB

Judi Bryan, Broker . . . . . . . . . . .email: Judi@HomesLady.com

RE/MAX Accord . . . . . . . . . . . . Direct:  (630) 605-8902

On the web: www.HomesLady.com

e-Pro® Certified Internet Professional

ACRE™ Accredited Consultant in Real Estate

ACRE is a RealTown Approved Vendor and has its Seal of Approval

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was with C21 corporate during the days of the highly successful "The World" and the "Agents Move House" by Mcann Erickson. The "If Real Estate Was This Easy" campaign I believe was created by Campbell Mithun Esty, who took over from ME after years and years of effective campaigns. The new series of ads featuring the Gold Standard was the brainchild of current C21 President Tom Kunz (an old school C21 executive) who took the helm a couple a years ago to help revitalize the C21 Brand. He has certainly removed much of the tarnish from the Gold.

I was a corporate when we did a complete remake of the brand including new camel colored coats instead of the old "musturd colored" coats. At one time there was a plan to give them to charity, but the thought of homeless guys roaming the streets in C21 garb took effect before it was too late. ;-)

Rich Hudson
Director of PR/Marketing
InternetCrusade
(619) 283-7302 Ext. 602
Rich@InternetCrusade.com

 

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Karl Von loewe Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Hillsborough,  NJ

Date: December 14, 2007

Glory Bee Costa wrote:
If I work as sub agent that party knows what I charge
and agrees if they want to look at something that is
under my fee, they will have to pay the difference,
collect it from the seller, or not view that home or
get another agent that will work for the offered
compensation.
 
Do you really work as a sub-agent in Maryland?  All real estate is local, but I thought that sub-agency was a dead dog.
 
Karl von Loewe, e-PRO
Prudential NJ Properties, Hillsborough NJ
http://KarlvonLoewe.com
Mailto:e-PRO@KarlvonLoewe.com
Blogging at: www.KarlKnowsTheMarket.com
Opinions different from mine are important, even though they are always wrong.
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gbcosta@yahoo.com

Date: December 15, 2007

 
Do you really work as a sub-agent in Maryland? All
real estate is local, but I thought that sub-agency
was a dead dog.

It can be done in MD, once in a blue moon a client
won't sign the buyers agreement and want to work the
old way. I still make them sign an additional
addendum including Whom The Agent Represents.
Personally I do not want an agent to show my listings
as a sub agent. We have 3 o4 old timers that alway
work that way, I mean old timers.

Glory Bee Costa ABR, CRS, GRI, E-PRO, SRES
410-745-3241-Home Office
410-310-9081-Cell
http://www.Maryland-WaterFront-Homes.com
E-Mail-Glory@GloryBeeCosta.com
Maryland Counties (Eastern Shore)
Talbot, Queen Anne, Caroline & Dorchester
Prudential Premier Properties - Easton, MD - Associate Broker

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Deede Wockenfuss Licensed Real Estate Agent,  Chandler,  AZ

Date: December 15, 2007

I will do whatever I can LEGALLY do to be sure that I am paid what I want to be paid for representing the buyer in the purchase of a property.  One percent is absolutely OUT OF THE QUESTION in today's market.  I absolutely CAN'T afford to represent this buyer for so little.  So, what to do, what to do????  I LONG ago stopped allowing other entities (Ass'n of Realtors, Dept of Real Estate, or another agent) to dictate what I MUST be paid for my services.  They can insist all day long that I am ethically "bound" to show all available properties and get paid whatever is offered.  But, there are LEGAL ways to avoid these STUPID rules. 
The Buyer Broker agreement is best.  It spells out everything BEFORE you look at the home.
But, if you don't get the agreement and come across a compensation that just will not be enough for you, let the buyer know BEFORE seeing it, that they will be required to make up the difference if they want to purchase the house.  Then, when filling out the contract, attach a Buyer Agent compensation agreement that will GO TO TITLE, not to the the seller.  The seller has stated what he will pay, so it is none of his business what the buyer has agreed to pay.
If this buyer refuses to make up the difference BEFORE seeing the home, let them know that you must pass on this one, but they may arrange to see it with someone else who will work for such low compensation.  You have explained the rules to this buyer.  If they refuse to pay the difference, you gave them an opportunity to see the property, but they declined.  No ethics breached.

--
Deede Wockenfuss
Marketing Manager
Assist 2 Sell, Buyers and Sellers Best Choice
480-558-0555

Go To:
    www.4GilbertHomes.Com
for your FREE "Real-Time MLS Market Report!
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