Jun. 23, 2009 - "gotta sell" at 315 West 36 Street, so dropped 40% -- and sold
seven figures of motivation
The Manhattan loft #12C at 315 West 36 Street was marketed with some urgency, some big price drops, and all caps (I have taken that annoying formatting off): "major price drop, must sell immediately!!!". Darned if they didn't do it (not "immediately", but they did it).
long downward trail
They started trying to sell this newly renovated loft ("designed from the ground up in 2008"; "from the ground up" on the 12th floor??) in May 2008 asking $2.65mm for "1,658 sq ft" that "architecturally speaking ... is a masterpiece". You can't say they weren't paying attention, as they dropped $300k right after Labor Day (after the Fall of the House of Lehman), then another $110k 5 weeks later. They changed firms around Thanksgiving, with a new price of $1.98mm.
That didn't work, either, so they pulled out the ALL CAPS and exclamation points when they crossed the $1,000/ft threshold with the March 6 price of $1.595mm and the "must sell immediately!!!" come-on. That ploy worked, though it took until May 13 to find thecontract that closed last week (June 15) at $1.439mm -- 10% off the last asking price and a round 40% off from where they started a year earlier. That is 40% as the crow calculates, but also $1,211,000 off that original ask.
long time getting started
This building was converted to white-box residential lofts in 2003 but this one seems to have been left in its original primitive state until this "ground up" renovation in 2008. (It was originally marketed this time around as "[c]ompleted in 2008 from a raw loft space". When purchased new in that not-quite-raw condition in May 2004, the June 2009 seller paid $895k. On a gross basis, they certainly made some money selling in June at $1.439mm after buying in 2004 at $895k and renovating "from the ground up" (that odd phrase really gets to me). Of course, they paid two rounds of transfer taxes and apparently did not even live there after buying it, so the net-net 'profit' is more limited.
That 2004-buyer-turned-seller was an LLC so I wonder what happened. Perhaps partners ran out of money or could not agree on renovation?? Whatever the reason, they carried this thing empty for five years. That will eat into profits, as well as generate losses. (Tax write-offs??) Probably not their original plan, however.
nice (long) reno, no?
I think they did a nice job (when they finally got around to ... yes ... indulge me ... renovating from the ground up) with a layout with windows only along one wall. The floor plan is pretty conventional (split bedrooms, open living / dining / whatever area in the middle), but the cool thing (for me, YMMV) is the glass (bedroom) walls that go opaque at the touch of a button. I doubt that the opacity-on-command helps sound insulation much, but it must surely look terrific.
© Sandy Mattingly 2009
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Jan. 14, 2008 - new at 347 W 39 / confidence abounds, with terraces
“this will sell quickly”
I didn’t say that.
Scott Hustis and Mark Jovanovic of Corcoran did, about #13N at 347 West 39 Street. They are asking $1.375mm and $1,480/mo for “1,300 sq ft” that has 3 exposures, 2 terraces, but no floor plan (yet?). No pictures show the terraces.
There are only 3 interior pix, 11 foot ceilings, no bragging about the kitchen (unless you count “open … with breakfast bar” as bragging) but 50 feet of atrium-style windows and – did I mention – no floor plan (yet?)? It is set up as a 1 bedroom said to be convertible to a 2 bedroom but it is hard to assess this without a floor plan (maybe there is one coming).
next door had some view issues
I saw #13E when it was offered for sale from mid-2006 through mid -2007. It was said to be “1,400 sq ft”. That unit was also a 1-bedroom-convertible-to-2, with a bath they bragged about, 3 exposures, and 45 feet of windows. After a long time on the market and a few price changes, it closed in October at $1.24mm, $65k above the last asking price.
As I recall, there was an immediate threat to one of the exposures (east?) from a hotel or other tall development right next door. If I am right that the threat came from the east, #13N may also be at risk of shrinking exposures.
confident agents put it on the line
As they say “Due to the Price and Special Design of this Space, this will sell quickly”, despite being a bit smaller than #13E (“100 sq ft”) and a bit more expensive ($135k) than #13E’s clearing price; perhaps the terraces account for that. The seller will know soon if they are right; it will take us just a little longer to figure it out.
© Sandy Mattingly 2008
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Dec. 6, 2007 - new with view at 448 W 37 / Glass Farmhouse duplex is large 1 Bed Wonder
fascinating space, tantalizing views (until…)
Unit 12G at 448 West 37 Street (The Glass Farmhouse) was new to market yesterday, asking $2.595mm and $1,975/mo (condo) for "2,638 sq ft" (duplexed). The predominant views are east (4 windows on each floor) and south (5 windows on each floor), but there are the advertised "3 exposures" with one west window on each floor.
pioneers wanted
The area around the Farmhouse is still pretty under-served for $1,000/ft pricing. Big upside potential, yes. City-targeted new development to the south and west, yes. (The various Hudson Yards proposals were reviewed, among many other places, in the NY Times on Nov 24, with maps and schematics showing that project as just to the west and 4 blocks south of The Glass Farmhouse.) But it ain't Soho (yet!), as I quarreled with Max Gross of the NY Post 15 months ago (September 14, 2006: West 30s ready for a close-up (but send Max back to Bible study)).
There will be many fascinating views of construction sites, near and not-very-far from the windows at #12G, but it may be hard to tell for a while what actual "views" will be left over after the next (5 to 10 years??) of construction. Be careful.
views of what?
I have speculated before about what impact on Glass Farmhouse views the Dermot rentals over the Lincoln Tunnel spillways will have (July 3: losing whose sky in the new west / development over the Lincoln Tunnel a threat to Glass Farmhouse?) so anyone interested should certainly be careful about which sight lines may be lost here.
As I said then:
How much Glass Farmer sky will be impacted by Hudson Mews South will depend on how close that 18 story tower goes to 36th Street and the setbacks, as the Glass Farmhouse extends south only to mid-block.
Some where there are renderings and models that would help answer that question. At the moment I don't know where, but sooner or later….
1 Bed Wonder-ful
At "2,638 sq ft", #12G is one of the larger One Bed Wonders I can recall. (February 24: what is a 1 bed wonder?)
Without doing too much renovation, one could certainly add a small bedroom where the lower floor "library" is, or a very small bedroom where the upper floor "office" is; otherwise, this is a wonderful space for people sharing one bed in that huge master suite.
"few remaining" true loft building??
I can't say I agree with Gabriella Winter and Alex Nicholas of Corcoran that The Glass Farmhouse is one of the "few remaining buildings that still offers true loft living", but this is true loft living, in a gritty nabe to boot. Twelve foot ceilings, an industrial past, an industrial vibe, steel I-beams and all those windows. Yup, true loft living. Just not one of the "few" buildings in which one can pull off that trick.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 4, 2007 - 249 W 29 has a motivated broker/owner
$1.895mm and $1,907/mo for "2,300 sq ft"; nearly square but only one wall
of windows, one bathroom; the owner-resident-broker has very little to say (curious); my guess is she has lived here a
long time since it was renovated
how motivated? $10k per
day
The broker/owner is definitely motivated, as she has dropped the price today
by $146k, almost $10k for very day it has been on the market.
The nearly square footprint has plumbing in the middle, so there should be a
fair amount of flexibility. Can't tell if the interesting flooring is stencil or in-lay, but it is interesting.
Ditto the ceilings. (The description "artistic detailing throughout" does not answer the question, either.)
building sales history
The entire 11th floor is in contract
("2,600 sq ft") off an ask of $2.495mm, after having been offered since March, starting at $2.95mm.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 1, 2007 - the unloftiest loft ever – 28 W 38 is over-the-top
yes, a Versailles loft
Loft snob that I am, I sometimes carp about whether a given space passes muster as a
true Manhattan loft, or is more loft-like or
even (gasp) more "apartment" than loft. See August 30, 2006 the Tao of Lofts / essential features for the general rules
(according to me) and August 27, 2007American
Thread new to market / why so soon? for some carping about a
not-loft-in-loft-building ("[p]erhaps this is the loft for uptown people who just want a
downtown address").
There is no question that this is a loft building (previous life in industry, high ceilings, huge windows, some exposed
mechanicals), or that units here have sold that are true lofts. In layout, this is clearly a classic Long-and-Narrow, with
the benefit of having 4 windows on one long side. There's ample space, with a living/dining area of 31 x 15 feet,
linked to open space from the kitchen into a den that is over 40 feet long.
But ... but ... but ...
The big room's floor is a combination of name brand marble and stone mosaic (no maple
here!). The room's walls are silk-lined. And this room has a chrome (!) ceiling.
The kitchen is a different name-brand marble floor with (I will quote here because I am not sure I can visualize)
"Venetian plaster and rubbed vinyl walls", with tin ceilings.
The den has yet another name-brand marble floor, mahogany walls and brass (!) ceiling.
More (different) name-brand marble floor in the master bedroom, more silk on the walls and a "unique" master bath.
The second bath gets the 18 karat gold fixtures.
Just look at the pix on the web, please, and read the description of the many elements I have not mentioned. As Halstead's
Anna Shagalov says in her listing headline "Versailles in NYC". "2,000 sq ft" of the damnedest over-the-top renovation that I have ever seen in a loft.
Asking $2.375mm and $2,121/mo for the kind of space that can only be bought by someone who buys into the
entire look. Don't buy this if you are going to change the marble, or the gold fixtures, or the silk on the
walls. Not to mention, this block is pretty gritty, pretty commercial, pretty authentically loft-y. I suspect that most
people with silk walls, three metal ceilings and four name-brand marble floors have doormen (and porters, and handymen,
and livery).
As they say, you can never tell what living spaces look like just by looking at a loft building façade or grungy lobby.
Never more true than here. (I wonder if the neighbors know???)
First showings are Wednesday.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Sep. 18, 2007 - new contract, much space, untold story at 249 W 29
#2E
at 249 West 29 Street has been an intriguing Manhattan loft
listing since coming to market in May, but if you've waited to see
it you've lost it, as it is now in a committed relationship
("contract signed" as of yesterday).
strong on the space-money
continuum
You
want space? "2,100 sq ft" and "1,750 sq ft" of outdoor space, low
on a price-per-foot basis at $1.695mm asking and $2,235/mo. The
listing drops hints that some work may be required to fully realize
the value (outdoor space "can be converted" into a
garden or entertaining space; loft has "charm and
potential"; the "glass wall dramatically
separating" the master bedroom from the living room may be more
farce or tragedy than drama for some).
The
space is your classic Long-and-Narrow (narrow being 23.5 feet) with
four windows front and four back and all plumbing on one long wall.
The outdoor space is on the second floor, so it may not exactly be
bathed in light or have panoramic views.
The
area around 29th Street and Eighth Avenue is probably at the top of the preferred
neighborhood list for very few people, but for someone who wants a
lot of space for the money and some outdoor space, it is
intriguing. (For one person, more than intriguing, but
irresistible.)
8 million stories in the naked
city
I
always wonder about the Stuff that Happens to upset/change people's
plans when I see a history like this one: the current sellers
bought the place in December for $1.45mm (by then it had been on
the market over a year, starting at $1.825mm, ending at $1.625mm).
Within six months they are (emotionally) out of here, and
put it on the market.
Speculation is easy in the complete absence of
facts, but it may be a change in job or finances, some tragedy that
tears at the fabric of a family, or that they simply hate the space
or the neighborhood. No reason they'd be telling, of course, but a
six month turn-around from closing to selling is ...
curious.
The
fact that they hung tough at the asking price ($1.675mm) for four
months without a price change is more understandable when you
realize what they paid for it six months earlier ($1.425mm). If
they got close to ask, they will make some money even
after two sets of closing and moving costs, but not a killing. They
probably do not recommend the experience to their
friends.
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Aug. 23, 2007 - indoors and out at 284 Fifths PH-B / (almost) brand new
but how big is
it?
Very cool new listing tonight from
Joseph Testone at Bellmarc for those who want real outdoor space.
PH-B
at 284 Fifth Avenue is a 3 BR + 3 bath with -- so far -- no
floor plan or gross square footage, asking $3.25mm (maintenance is
$4,278/mo). But we are told that the terrace is 2,200 sq ft.
[UPDATE 9.3: now it is a co-exclusive listing with Katherine
Gauthier of PruDE, with a different set of pix here.]
Unfortunately, one thing you won't
see from this 8th floor terrace at 30th
Street and Fifth Avenue is the Empire State Building (unless it is
visible straight up), as there is a tall building just to the
north. Lots of glass, lots of light, and some proper proper nouns
dropped for the kitchen and baths ... looks pretty darn cool. But
how big is it??
The building foot print is 5,000 sq
ft, but the roof slopes back a bit. Allowing for the 2,200 sq ft
setback terrace, the loft space can't be any more than 2,800 sq ft.
[UPDATE 9.3: now there's a floor plan up; if the terrace really
is 2,200 sq ft, the interior looks to me to be about
2,000]
On doing some digging, it turns out
this unit was offered by Testone as "PH-AB" from May to July 1 for
$3.595mm. So this is not so new (I must have missed it the first
time around). But still (potentially) very cool. With that 2,200 sq
ft terrace.
I looked at some studios in this
building when it was first being offered through Corcoran (2004??).
Corcoran ended up giving up the marketing (so the story went) as
the sponsor/developer couldn't make up its mind about selling
prices and/or could not get all this paperwork or financing in
order. City records suggest someone else stepped in, and that units
started closing in 2005.
sponsor taking a final
shot?
It may be that the penthouse never
sold, and that this sale is a sponsor sale. Building permits
suggest that the major renovation of the penthouse was done
(begun?) only a year ago.
Hard to get comps for space like
this. There is certainly nothing else like it in the building (even
without considering the terrace.) And not many spaces anywhere with
this large interior space and this large a terrace.
[UPDATE: Open House Sunday Sept 9 12 - 2
PM]
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jul. 30, 2007 - 372 Fifth little loft / NY Times On The Market
so small but so tall
Sunday’s On The Market feature in the Sunday real estate section of the NY Times included a Manhattan loft that is only “744 sq ft”, #3P at 372 Fifth Avenue. This former mercantile space (Best & Co., at one point) was converted to lofts about 25 years ago, many of which are rather small. But there are high ceilings, original structural elements (terra cotta vaulted ceilings, steel column), and an open layout.
Offered through Mara Flash Blum of Sotheby’s for $729k since early July (maintenance is $787/mo), #3P is one of those unusual small-but-true lofts.
The Pros vs. Cons analysis in the Times seems pretty fair:
PROS: This apartment in the former Best & Company department store has eye-catching details like vaulted terra cotta ceilings and a restored original steel column. The kitchen and bath were recently renovated with sleek finishes, including slate tile and black granite counters.
CONS: The apartment has only one window and has no view.
This building has a peculiar distribution of maintenance obligations, to say the least. #3P is $787/mo for what is said to be “744 sq ft”, while #10H is said to be “800 sq ft” (with a “300 sq ft” terrace) and is offered by Corcoran for $649k (with an offer accepted), with the notation that the asking price reflects the maintenance of $2,511/mo.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jul. 16, 2007 - 28 W 38 St broker/owner in contract
top price, terrific loft
Jim Grica at BHS just got a signed contract on his loft at 28 W 38 St, Unit 3W, which had been on the market since April at $1.795mm ($1,943/mo maintenance) for “2,00 sq ft” that Is not only “the ultimate in authentic loft living”, but “sexy [and] beyond triple mint”. (I assume he gets similarly excited for other people’s lofts.)
This Long-and-Narrow has three front and three rear windows and two west windows, and is 23 feet wide. Plumbing runs along the middle wall of the two-units-per-floor building, with neither bathroom being en suite. It does look like very high quality work throughout, and priced accordingly.
#8E (also “2,000 sq ft”) sold in January (can’t find a sold price, but it was last offered for $1.395mm) in a condition with a lot of “potential”. It had been on the market since March 2006 (starting at $1.695mm), and took two firms and four prices to sell.
#2E sold in May (curiously, “1,980 sq ft”) for $1.355mm in a pretty refined condition, but with a layout that was somewhat limiting (one bedroom, one bath, lofted den). That had been offered only since January (at $1.365mm).
location, location, location
Interesting location, kind of betwixt and between. Near lots of things, but of no neighborhood. Gritty commercial block, to say the least.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jul. 3, 2007 - losing whose sky in the new west / development over the Lincoln Tunnel a threat to Glass Farmhouse?
maybe not so bad for of the Glass Farmers?
Hudson Mews threatens light, brings park
A friendly Anon-a-mouse brought a fact about the recent sale of a two-story building immediately south of The Glass Farmhouse with significant unused FAR, but that is not what I remembered as the issue. A developer’s name popped into my head overnight as possibly associated with the project I was thinking about and – Google being my friend – I found a NY Observer article from April 29 (Behold, a Mini-City Rises; not the article I was thinking about, but it mentions the development I had read about, Hudson Mews North and South).
That “infrastructure” is the spaghetti of entrance and exit tunnels and ramps to the Lincoln Tunnel and the Port Authority Bus Terminal that dominates the northeast end of the Hudson Yards. One of the key real-estate deals to smooth out the terrain is a pair of mid-rise apartment complexes on either side of 37th Street between Ninth and 10th avenues. Called Hudson Mews North and South, the Dermot Company project will be built on a platform above the Lincoln Tunnel entrance and exit ramps—a challenge that has taken longer than expected to surmount.
“The engineering and technical details of building on that site have been worked out, and we are looking for the most cost-effective way of satisfying the Port Authority and other engineering requirements,” Dermot president William Dickey told The Observer. “This is rather a unique situation. There is no other project like this in the city or in the Port Authority system.”
Mr. Dickey said that when the Port Authority first agreed to give the air rights to the Dermot Company, the two parties had hoped that ground would be broken this summer, with December as the outside date. These days, December is looking more realistic. The cost of the air rights is one part of the negotiations.
A piece from The Real Estate Bloggers a year ago added the detail that the 800 unit development will have two 18-story towers above the approach ramps on Dyer Avenue between 36th and 38th Streets, including 20% as “affordable housing”, 10,000 sq ft of “community space” and 25,000 sq ft of “public open space”.
More up to date (THX Google) is a June 8 letter from Community Board 4 to the City Planning Commission, in which CB4 recommended approval of the project based (mainly) on the open space to be featured.
This project is an important first step toward realizing the “InfrastructurePark” or “NeighborhoodPark” that featured so prominently in the City’s Hudson Yards open space plan, stretching from 34th to 40th Streets.
The addresses for the two rental towers will be 424 W 37 Street and 439 W 37 Street – just across the street (north) of The Glass Farmhouse and due east, separated by at least two lots from The Glass Farmhouse (the 50 foot wide 4 story building at #430 and the 50 foot wide parking lot at #434).
all about the angles, and setbacks
How much Glass Farmer sky will be impacted by Hudson Mews South will depend on how close that 18 story tower goes to 36th Street and the setbacks, as the Glass Farmhouse extends south only to mid-block.
Some where there are renderings and models that would help answer that question. At the moment I don’t know where, but sooner or later….
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jul. 2, 2007 - people who live in Glass Farmhouse 6F is new
Unit 6F at 448 W 37 Street is so new this morning that Anthony Gentile at PruDE does not have a floor plan or any interior photos up yet. He says “over 1,200 sq ft”, though our building data shows this unit at 1,340 sq ft. The asking price is $1.149mm, with $1,106/mo in taxes and common charges.
This is one of those ‘true loft’ buildings that carries a significant neighborhood discount due to its location overlooking the Lincoln Tunnel from the far west side.
Lincoln Tunnel taketh and giveth
That location also provides the singular charm of amazing views and light to the south and east, over the various tunnel spillways.
true loft
I don’t know the history of the building, but it clearly has an industrial pre-residential past. With high ceilings (12 ft in #6F) and the large windows that frame that big sky, it is classic loft space. My guess is that the windows bring in so much terrific light, that the original post-industrial users (photographers, designers) did not need very large spaces to get very good light. Hence, many units are relatively small for classic lofts – 1,000 to 1,50 sq ft.
The listing refers to a 24 –hour doorman, which would be a change from the part-time status of the recent past. (Guessing – again – that there were enough people running businesses with deliveries out of this building that the condo owners at some early point opted for a daytime doorman.)
Chelsea Kitchen???
I am not sure how to react to Gentile’s clever location locution. He calls this area Chelsea Kitchen, though it is well north of what people have recently considered to be Chelsea proper, and well within the area commonly referred to as Hell’s Kitchen. Too clever by half, or just clever enough?? Not sure….
Gary Kahn of Corcoran has been marketing #11F since April, “1,543 sq ft” and 14 foot ceilings for $1.375mm and $1,528/mo (down from the original price of $1.4mm). While waiting for the #6F photos, check out the Corcoran pix from the 11th floor. The Unit 11F floor plan exemplifies the difficulties with most units in this building that are not on corners: the beautiful windows are along only one wall and provide so much light that it is a shame to close any windows off with a bedroom. The result is the interior bedroom plus guest sleeping loft used in #9F, or some similar solution. (BTW, the #11F listing says “part-time” doorman, so either the change is very recent, or PruDE’s #6F listing is wrong.)
Spoiler alert: I have seen (but can’t find a link now) news reports about a rental tower to be built somewhere over those tunnel spillways. If the planed building is, in fact, built, it will take away some slices of some sky for some residents at the Glass Farmhouse.
If you go, ask!
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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May. 18, 2007 - what would Cass Gilbert think / 130 W 30 St challenges
great building! the block … not so much
There are few great loft buildings in Manhattan that separate the Prefer-Loft people from the Love-Lofts people the way The Cass Gilbert does, at 130 West 30th Street. Indeed, this building even separates the Merely-Love-Lofts people from the Love-Lofts-And-Authentic-Grit people, as only the latter should find their way through the Lincoln Tunnel exiting traffic and past the police station next door to #130.
Nothing pretty about this block. And not much that is pretty about any nearby blocks, either. (see digression, at bottom)
Yet there is a beautiful loft there, new to the market this week– that may be worth – to the right buyer -- the $1,300/ft they are asking for it.
#17A at 130 W 30 St is newly offered by Susan Sears of Corcoran. It is 2,300 sq ft and is offered for $2.995mm (and an even $3,000/mo). In a world in which downtown lofts with more than 2,000 sq ft on less ... gritty streets can be had under $3 million, Susan’s challenge will be in getting $3 million buyers to this block. Once there and up the elevator, there is a lot to like.
the plus factor is out the window
I will assume for this discussion that the finishes are as advertised – and worthy of this price range. What makes this unit stand out from others in the building, however, is the 17th floor views, including the Empire State Building. Many units in the building are well appointed, but their big windows look at nearby buildings. It appears as though the 17th floor is high enough to provide the sense of space that is the kind of “extra” a $3 million buyer could need on this block.
By way of contrast, see #7B offered by Tamir Shemish of PruDE. It is nearly the same size (2,150 sq ft) and “no expense [has been] spared” in tricking it out, but it is offered at only $1.95mm (and $2,411/mo). Granted, this layout does not have as many windows as #17A, but the north windows on the 7th floor are looking across the street – not four blocks to the Empire State Building. (Open House in #7B on Sunday from 2 – 4)
helpful comp next door, facing south
Height matters. #17B sold in August 2005 for $2.35mm – nearly $1,100/ft for its 1,987 sq ft. (These south views might actually be preferred by many to the Empire State Building views in #17A.) It is likely to be at least two full years between the closing of #17B in August 2005 and the completed sale of #17A -- $1,300/ft is within a reasonable range as an asking price for #17A, IMO.
Final curio about marketing The Cass Gilbert: the listing descriptions for both #7B and #17B make lemonade out of the police station next door, by describing the locations as “the safest block in the city”. Well, I guess …. Nice try , for sure.
Open House in #17A on Sunday from 12 – 3
digression:
I thought about the Cass Gilbert this morning – before seeing the listing for #17A -- when reading a NYT review of Of Mice And Men. (really) The review begins:
This is the 70th anniversary of John Steinbeck’s novella “Of Mice and Men,” and the play he adapted from it, also in 1937, is being honored in a tiny theater on a West Side street where drunks and derelicts roam.
That “tiny theater” is Urban Stages, at 259 W 30th St – one block closer to the Lincoln Tunnel than the Cass Gilbert, and the block that has a fire station to the Cass Gilbert’s police station. Can’t get much authentically grittier for a $3mm loft buyer than “where drunks and derelicts roam”. Bet those drunks and derelicts are safe, though.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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May. 17, 2007 - under $800/ft at 1200 Broadway (still too high?)
#7C at 1200
Broadway (the Gilsey House) is new today, offering a lot of
space (1,950 sq ft) for the money ($1.55mm and $2,007/mo) in a
central location. As PruDE’s Pam Huson says, this is definitely not
a “cookie cutter” loft. It does, however, present some layout
challenges.
This one is nearly square but has
windows only on one side (facing south) – and only four windows in
all. The only full bath is a bit of a trek from either bedroom, as
is the pass-through-the-‘nursery’ half-bath.
My guess is that this space will be
most attractive to someone who is willing to do some serious
updating or some serious renovation. My guess is that the asking
price does not reflect the work (expense) that a buyer will put
in.
#5G sold in September 2006 -- after “a year long renovation”
described as “stunning” -- for $1.495mm.
#6C (same foot print as #7C) sold in December 2005 for $998k
off an asking price of $1.195mm.
Open House in #7C Sunday 1:30-
3:30
#7B is still for sale here ($1.795mm and $2,079/mo for 2,000 sq
ft). This one is definitely more done than #7C next door,
with another non-cookie-cutter layout.
Open House Sunday 2:15-
3:30
Unless they have changed it
recently, this building has the (archaic? irritating?) security
feature of a front door without a buzzer, so residents have to
traipse all the way down the lobby to let the food delivery guy
in.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Feb. 9, 2007 - coop boards behaving badly / can you imagine?
how absolute power can corrupt
Maybe it is the cold weather that has me thinking about nasty people doing nasty things….
worse than alligators / I will count the ways
It seems that everyone in Manhattan has heard horror stories about buyers being screwed by coop boards. The stories have as much ubiquity as the alligators-in-the-plumbing stories, but more truth. We recently had one such horror story in our office, which got me to thinking about ways that coop boards can abuse their nearly absolute power.
There are three ways that coop boards are most likely to abuse their power to approve or reject applications to purchase. (1) Arbitrary application of financial and special standards. (2) Your garden-variety (illegal) discrimination, against people of a different race, religion, sexual identification, etc. (3) When conflicted by self-interest.
‘tough’ boards get a reputation
The first abuse is one that is probably the easiest to anticipate for agents and sellers, as these buildings develop a reputation. These buildings include the very tony addresses with financial requirements include post-closing liquidity of two or three times the purchase price (i.e., to qualify to buy an apartment for $1.5mm the purchasers should have $3-4.5mm in cash and securities after the purchase) and buildings that have boards that never agree within themselves what their standards are, so each application is a bit of a crap shoot.
the grandfather problem for tony buildings – not lofts
In those tony buildings, it often appears that if your grandfather did not go to boarding school with my grandfather, my application will not be approved, no matter what. This problem is not a problem in any loft building I am aware of!
shooting craps to buy a loft
Some lofts do seem to have a crap shoot approach, however, sometimes because of generational conflict on the board: long-time shareholders can have a more laissez faire attitude (“if the bank lends them the money, that’s good enough for me”) while more recent purchasers on the board are more sensitive to the risks that high prices and exotic mortgages can bring.
This problem is not so much an abuse-of-power issue as it is a moving target issue, where sellers, buyers and agents may have trouble predicting what the board’s standards for admissions are.
gardening discrimination
Your basic illegal discrimination is the dirty little secret of the Manhattan coop market. It is also impossible to get good data on because coops don’t report reasons and because lawsuits are hard to prove and expensive to bring. (Few people want the continuing distraction of fighting to get into a building that [they believe] discriminated against them, or to possibly be known as a litigious applicant (which can tend to reduce admissions chances in any coop).
But it happens. Enough agents and real estate lawyers have seen enough “unusual” rejection decisions by boards to know that some boards sometimes make decisions for illegal reasons. We had one in my office last year that was an all-but-certain case involving a gay couple with impeccable financials. The financials were deemed “impeccable” by the listing agent who had done a lot of business in the building. The couple had histories of stable and remunerative employment, significant assets, and had been together a long time. They were turned down without an interview, and without the normal back-and-forth of questions from the managing agent after the application is submitted.
Other people have had experience with applications that hinted at the purchaser’s race (because of college or organization memberships) that were turned down, despite seemingly fitting into the pattern of previously acceptable qualifications.
This problem is very difficult to anticipate or do anything about. There is just not enough history that becomes well-known to give agents or sellers reason to anticipate the problem.
To engage in gross generalization for a moment, this behavior is more stereotypical of “uptown” coops, rather than downtown loft buildings, which ion may ways have a live-and-let-live attitude. But you never know….
conflicted boards that want you to sell to me, not them
Then there are boards that have rejected applicants to purchase a certain apartment then later approve an application by a board member to buy that same apartment.
We just had what looks like one of these in my office. A cash purchaser was turned down on the paperwork, without any back-and-forth about financial qualifications, for an apartment that a board member had tired to buy at a lower price some months earlier. No smoking gun here, but the reasonable suspicion is that the board rejected a qualified buyer so that one of its won could buy instead.
As with all things within the Cloak of Coop Invisibility it is hard to get more than anecdotes and urban legend “information” about these occurrences. Agents (especially) and shareholders who end up selling and moving into another coop tend not to have a reason to make too big a stink.
One example that escaped from the Cloak of Coop Invisibility was discussed in the New York Times about two years ago. A Board Turndown, and Then a Buyer With Board Ties In this instance, the seller was sufficiently pissed off about what happened and – having moved to assisted living with family outside Manhattan – unafraid to be quoted.
The facts in that instance were typically suspicious of this kind of scenario. A board member had expressed interest in buying that apartment at (what the owner thought was ) a below market price; a purchaser with historically-acceptable qualifications was turned down without much back-and-forth; an individual related to the board member then purchased.
what can be done?
For a purchaser, the agent should inquire if there has been any interest in purchasing from a board member and perhaps even get a contract representation that there have been no such inquiries. If there have been, it gets very dicey, as the buyer (and the seller) should be loathe to upset the board before approval.
But they can consider a polite conversation with that board member to underline that “of course” the new application will be considered on its merits, and maybe a call from the seller’s counsel to the managing agent. The seller can also talk informally to as many people on the board as he or she has good relations with.
In other words, not much can be done by the seller or the buyer.
Shareholders always have the power (when it comes around once a year) to throw the bums out. But that assumes that shareholders (a) find out (b) care and (c) are willing to serve instead of the bums.
Having said all this – and as a ten year coop board president – I should reiterate that all of these types of abuses of power are exceptions to the general rule that boards act responsibly. The exceptions are always painful to those caught in them, and deserve to be pointed out – even though it is in almost no one’s interest to do so at the time.
bad apples + a bunch
It is stories of abuses like these that periodically fan the flames of a legislative solution in Albany. Whether coops should be forced to give reasons for purchase decision is a complicated issue, but if it happens it will be because some boards misbehave. Blame them.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Sep. 13, 2006 - West 30s ready for a close-up (but send Max back to Bible study)
lofts for less in a less labeled land
The Manhattan loft nabe I called Big Sky country a month ago was featured in the NY Post two weeks ago as a land of less expensive lofts, but reporter Max Gross garbled his Bible references.
Low-priced condos and lofts with tons of space and amazing views - the 21st-century equivalent of loaves and fishes - are on the market in the heart of Manhattan, west of Sixth Avenue from 34th to 41st streets.
Space + views = loaves & fishes?? Miraculously multiplied by Jesus, that was loaves and fishes. Coveted and unusual, that is “tons of space and amazing views”. Huh?? But I digress….
“We really loved the industrial feel,” says Michelle Turner. “But we didn’t have the TriBeCa checkbook.” So they turned an 1,100-square-foot former office in the Glass Farmhouse building on West 37th Street into their own gorgeous two-bedroom.
I agree with Gross about the light and views at the Glass Farmhouse (see my Big Sky post from July 31), and mostly about the space there, as well. But I am not sure his math holds up.
The Glass Farmhouse, a mixed-use office/ residential building, has been selling lofts for just over $900 per square foot. That's significantly less than the average of $1,038 per square foot you'll find a few blocks south in Chelsea, but it's still a huge step up for the Garment District, where many units are still less than $800 per square foot.
Unit 9A in that building has been in contract since July -- probably well under $900/ft -- for a gut renovation. The PruDE listing by Marian Levitt is said to be 1,650 sq ft and was first offered by Sotheby’s at $1.795mm last November, then in a classic death-by-dripping-dollars, it went to $1.695mm, to $1.595mm. to $1.495mm and then to PruDE for $1.45mm, and (ta-da!) to $1.295mm. If they got the full $1.295mm asking price, that is $785 per square foot.
Unit 10E is still for sale, through Adrian Noriega and Tamir Shemesh of PruDE. This one needs some renovations, perhaps (“endless possibilities” and “bring your designer”), and is 1261 square feet offered for $925k. That is asking $734 per square foot.
(Note to NY Post editors: send Mr. Gross to math class after Bible study.)
Round up the usual suspects
Reporter Gross found a broker to offer the obligatory comparison:
And some brokers are even saying this area could become the new SoHo.
"It definitely has the potential," says Andrew Barrocas, owner of the Real Estate Group. "It has a lot of the same characteristics."
Well, sort of.
It has grit (what Gross calls the “raffish, unpolished feel”), check. It has too-hip-types (“the funky artists and photographers that made the SoHo of yore so gritty and delicious”), check (“delicious”??). And few residential services, check.
Highway 61, redux
But 8th and 9th Avs are way busier than any of the main thoroughfares in Soho or Tribeca. And – although Tribeca has the Holland Tunnel – the Lincoln Tunnel and its approaches eat up a huge swath of the West 30s. So let’s wait on the Next Soho thing (another digression … the Next Soho is to Manhattan neighborhoods as the Next Dylan was to ‘70s music).
We never got a new Dylan (unless you count the schizoid permutations of Robert Zimmerman himself) and we don’t need a new Soho. A more well-developed, better serviced West 30s will be fine.
© Sandy Mattingly 2006
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on matters of interest to Manhattan coop or condo loft apartment dwellers, buyers, sellers, and others, especially about New York City real estate
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