Mar. 13, 2008 - 30 Bond new on hot block / how hot a renovation?
I have removed the content of this blog post, as it comments about the current listing of another agent. For information about why, check out end of an era for Manhattan Loft Guy / a new day dawns? from April 9.
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Feb. 20, 2008 - sun floods, contract follows at 39 Great Jones
I have removed the content of this blog post, as it comments about the current listing of another agent. For information about why, check out end of an era for Manhattan Loft Guy / a new day dawns? from April 9.
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Feb. 12, 2008 - long time comin’ / contract at 714 Broadway
I have removed the content of this blog post, as it comments about the current listing of another agent. For information about why, check out end of an era for Manhattan Loft Guy / a new day dawns? from April 9.
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Jan. 30, 2008 - 718 Broadway in the news again / #10C is back, beefier
not new, exactly, though more
718 Broadway #10C showed up as a new listing yesterday, asking $1.295mm and $1,486 for “1,400 sq ft” of “real NoHo loft with sunlight, dramatic city views, and 12 foot ceilings”.
This unit and this building both have some history. In fact, I have hit this building three times before, having been fascinated by some sales history, some problems with rulers, and one magnificent minimal loft that I could not live in but that is for sale for the second time in a year.
There’s only one picture and a floor plan for #10C up on PruDE’s site now, which is a bit peculiar because I remember there being more photos when this same agent was selling this same unit from January to April 2007 (ask was $1.25mm then); the inter-firm history shows a contract having been signed in April 2007 but no other activity until coming back as “new” yesterday (obviously, that didn’t close).
challenging footprint
The Long-and-Narrow layout provides some atypical Long-and-Narrow challenges. Both very large windows are at the front (providing “22 feet” of eastern exposure), so most conventional configurations would put sleeping areas away from the windows (as here, with the present single bedroom). The plumbing Is on the opposite narrow wall, where the kitchen and the (single) bath are squeezed between the front door and the wall; adding a second bath (if it can be done at all) may be a challenge and would probably require erasing the bedroom and starting over.
history
#11C was marketed for five months a year ago at $1.575mm without selling. That listing description was modest about the finishes and did not mention any renovations except prospectively (“these [2 bed]rooms can easily be reconfigured or removed …”).
#3B had a bit of an odyssey, completed with a closed sale 3 weeks ago at $1.2mm, for “1,400 sq ft” with nothing interior to brag much about. How’s this for an odyssey? It was on the market for all but 7 months from November 2004 to December 2006, with 3 firms and 7 price changes between $1.35mm to $1.175mm; the last offering price was $1.24mm, from April 2007 until the contract in October.
This same agent offered #6C for sale last summer at $1.2mm with some bragging (about marble, tile, counters, concrete floor, and a Viking range). That shows as sold in our system as of October, but I don’t see that transaction in city records.
#2C is that magnificent minimal loft, and it traded at $1.325mm in May to buyers who changed their minds: it has been for sale again for 10 weeks.
a fave for MLG
It is that loft the piqued my interest in the building, as I saw it and two other very different neighboring lofts that were on the market at the same time, leading to my post on November 8, 2006: comparing lofts and lofts ain't so easy / 718 Broadway as lab, which compared #2C, #2A and #3B.
In turn, that post caused me to look at the building sales history to try to make some sense of it all on November 9, 2006:more rich data and 'comps' / 718 Broadway sales history (it didn’t work).
With that prior interest in this building and in #2C in particular, I was floored when #2C came back to the market so soon after selling in May 2007 for $1.325m. The resulting post (November 9, 2007: a mistake, perhaps, as 718 Broadway is for sale again (not bloody likely)) reflects that I was totally freaked out that the May buyers became November wanna-sellers at $2.125mm (the price has since been dropped to $1.95mm, which – at this scale – Is no less freaky to me). Note especially that #2C seems to have grown with the new price in November.
visiting with other neighbors
Faithful readers will realize that I have spent a fair amount of time on this long block of Broadway already in 2008. I hit 716 Broadway on January 11 (716 Broadway has another birthday loft) and 710 Broadway on January 9 (710 Broadway is slimmer after holiday break). Both of those posts dealt with very mature listings and show that even a price under $1,000/ft may not be attractive enough to seal a deal on this busy busy busy block.
back to #10C
If you visit #10C, before to ask about any plans to develop the parking lot to the east. I don’t know if that is a factor in this loft not selling last year when offered at $1.25mm, or if it was the amount of work people anticipate having to do after buying it.
© Sandy Mattingly 2008
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Jan. 12, 2008 - wheel stopped spinning / contract at 704 Broadway after a million weeks
a big one: "5,000 sq ft" for (as of this weekend) $5.795mm and (only) $2,647/mo (condo), offered through Holly Parker of PruDE by a "developer who has thought of every luxury detail" and many exclamation points.
Yes, it does look very luxurious, and certainly is massive. But the most interesting thing to me (not having any buyer at the moment at this price point) is the history. (Are you sitting down?)
Feb 2005: $5.495mm
June 2005: $5.8mm
March 2006: $6.2mm
May 2006: $5.95mm
Dec 2006: $5.75mm
Feb 2007: $5.499mm
May 2007: $4.995mm
Oct 2007: $5.695mm
This is one listing that puts the history in listing history!
I hope Jeremiah will track it
Of course the punch line here will be when we learn what the contract price is, when it finally does close. Unless the seller credibly ‘sold’ the summer price as the product of delirium, it is hard to see why a bidder would not have thought the thing could be bought under $5mm.
Ironically, reader Jeremiah commented overnight on the Oct 28 post that he saw the price had been raised again, to $5.8mm. Not sure where that (incorrect) information came from, but I hope he will catch the closed price if I miss it.
another personal record
This is easily the most mature listing I have tracked. Also, interesting that there are 7 price changes but no price was repeated. Quirky, quirky, quirky.
Congratulations to Holly Parker and the ever-so-patient (if peripatetic) seller.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jan. 11, 2008 - 716 Broadway has another birthday loft
keeping it on the 2d floor
About twenty feet north of the 2d floor loft I hit on Wednesday (710 Broadway is slimmer after holiday break) in the greater NYU corridor known as Broadway, 2d floor at 716 Broadway is also on the market, also has a long history (including a birthday), and also has high ceilings and soundproofed windows.
I hit it in a riff about seasonality of the Manhattan real estate market on September 19 (hope falls eternal? 716 Bway is back; short story: The Market is seasonal, but that is a macro concept that is – IMO -- overblown).
This one has at least two things going for it over its toddler neighbor at 710 Broadway: a “500 sq ft” garden and direct views of Washington Square Park a short block to the west.
maturity in a listing is painful
Even in September it was a listing with a long history:
This is a... mature... listing. They misperceived The Market at the start, coming out in June 2006 at $2.95mm for "2,400 sq ft" (plus "500 sq ft" of outdoor space in the back) and $1,800/mo. An adjustment in October 2006 to $2.65mm (of a scale that should have gotten attention) has held, but has not (yet) been successful.
Other than that 10% drop in price 15 months ago, the seller has held firm.
comparisons abound
Compared to its 2d floor neighbor at 710 Broadway, this one has (in addition to the outdoor space and Washington Square views) probably a better set of finishes in essentially the same size, and $500k. Compared to the 3rd floor at 716 Broadway, this one has more bathroom (2 vs. 1.5) and that outdoor space, but the 3rd floor has a bragged-about kitchen. The 3rd floor also sold – in May 2006 (6 weeks before the 2nd floor came to market at $2.95mm) for $1.85mm.
Short story Is that neither the 2d floor loft at 716 Broadway nor the 2d floor loft at 710 Broadway has sold, after long marketing, in a market that was notoriously active. Perhaps they are waiting for The Market tide to float them off the rocks….
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Jan. 9, 2008 - 710 Broadway is slimmer after holiday break
new price, new year, new luck?
The 2d floor at 710 Broadway is in its toddler stage, having passed its birthday a month ago. It took only 2 weeks off the market over the break of the year but is back today, at the slightly reduced price of $2.195mm. (It started at $2.5mm in December 2006, changed firms in March and has been at $2.295mm since April, with a long summer vacation off the market.)
My guess is that the change in year will be more significant to the (new) market’s reaction than the change in price, as it may be more helped by buyers newly in the market than by ‘old’ buyers being impressed by a $100k drop.
I am surprised to see that in all that time I have only mentioned this loft once (in an October open house review), especially as I have been in the loft.
tall Long-and-Narrow, with quirks
This “2,450 sq ft” space is relatively narrow at 21.5 feet, with the classic three windows in front (over Broadway) and in back; it is also tall enough (at 14 feet) to have a mezzanine over the kitchen and bathrooms with 2 sleep loft / office spaces. The footprint is challenging, so narrow that the 2d “bedroom” in the back is only 7.5 feet wide, with a long ‘dressing room’ between it and the window. The plumbing is in the middle of the loft, so the bathrooms are back-to-back and a long way from the bedroom.
There are no pictures of the kitchen or baths (and no bragging unless you count “jacuzzi”), which is consistent with my recollection that these elements are pretty dated.
under $1,000/ft hasn’t helped yet
On reflection, this one may be like yesterday’s #8A at 74 Fifth Avenue In that the layout may be a huge hurdle to attracting a buyer (74 Fifth back on market / ‘potential’ costs money). That one has more flexibility than this one, because this one is so narrow, and is marketed as bring-your-architect. I wonder how many lookers have commented “layout doesn’t work for me”….
© Sandy Mattingly 2008
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Jan. 7, 2008 - 57 Bond back on market / still pushing (new) neighborhood values
the new kids on the block that have driven prices very far very fast are 40 Bond and 48 Bond. 40 Bond is the 31-unit Ian Schrager project with "five star hotel services and amenities", in which original units can still be had for as little as $3.5mm for "1,269 sq ft" (#6D) or as much as $9.95mm for "3,288 sq ft' (#9A). 48 Bond is the smaller (17 unit) Deborah Berke designed project that has a "3,141 sq ft" full floor unit left, asking $5.15mm.
extended holiday break?
They took it of the market before thanksgiving and just brought it back today. Maybe they had a very extended family in for a very extended holiday season.
When I hit it on November 1, the listing was so new that pix and floor plan were not yet up on PruDE’s website. With the fresh Back On Market status this morning, the listing is not even up on the site. It will probably make it later today. [Update 1.8: the listing is still not up on PruDE, though you can see the thumbnail of it on the agent's site ... weird; you can see the pix and a bit of the description there] [double update 1.8: now the link is working to PruDE; got some link love from Curbed.com yesterday, which you should click on here if you want an unrestrained classic Curbed reader comment expressing some ... dissatisfaction with the aesthetics of 57 Bond]
© Sandy Mattingly 2008
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Nov. 9, 2007 - a mistake, perhaps, as 718 Broadway is for sale again (not bloody likely)
for real?
I am going to start out being as clinical as I can be about the new listing today of #2C at 718 Broadway, which is so new that the link does not yet work on PruDE's site, but when it does it will be here. (update Nov 13: the listing detail is up, but with only one picture and no floor plan -- sheesh) (update Nov 15: the pictures + floor plan are up; they've taken down the sheers and added red furniture)
(Prolixity warning: this one is very long. But rewarding, IMO.)
When it hits the web, you will see that the agent notes that #2C is an AIA award-winning loft and has been featured in Interior Design magazine, and Dutch and British Elle Décor.
You will see that it is said to be "1,600 sq ft" and that they are asking $2.125mm and $1,370/mo.
any of this sound familiar?
If you have been a faithful reader for a very long time (and have an excellent memory) you will remember that I love this loft. Here's what I said about it a year ago, almost to the day:
Once you close the door in 2C you would never think you were in the same building with the other two lofts [2A and 3B were also for sale at that time].
Please, please, please look at the pictures, and then understand that - if anything --- the photos do not do justice to this space. [Unfortunately, those pix are no longer on the web, but PruDE's new pix should be up soon; they won't do justice either.] This is a white-on-white museum quality minimalist renovation. While this unit looks over the same parking lot as 3B, I suspect that possible development has nothing to do with value or with the owner's enjoyment of the space. Note the window shears - everything about this space relates inward, so what is outside the window will only detract from the space.
I am not saying I could live there (no way). I am not saying there are many people who can live there. I just hope that there are enough who can and that someone who can has the money and the opportunity to make a deal with these owners.
The care taken to eliminate detailing in closets, cabinets, and appliances is extreme. The walls 'float' off the floor the way museum walls do not touch the floor; the kitchen wall not only does that, but flares out at the bottom, while the upper surface of the cabinets also undulates.
I have no idea who could buy this amazing space
How unlivable is this space for conventional tastes? There are two sleeping areas in the upper mezzanine, separated (as I recall) by a few plastic containers (I am not doing them justice) but otherwise open to below. A low cough in one bed is heard distinctly in the other.
(That was on Nov 8, 2006: comparing lofts and lofts ain't so easy / 718 Broadway as lab.)
My description sounds like the same description as the new listing, right? It can't be that this museum-quality space has been renovated yet again and again been featured in magazines and won an AIA award, right?
Just checking here, because the loft that is now described as "1,600 sq ft" and offered at $2.125mm was being offered a year ago for $1.475mm (down from the original $1.6mm) and was described as "1,200 sq ft".
I made a prediction last year that came true ("I can say that this one is 'very' unique [remember, in my business "unique" has many modifiers]. Unique properties have fewer potential buyers, so this may be on the market for a while regardless of price."). It was on the market "for a while" longer and dropped the price twice before signing a contract in April and closing in May.
(Just the facts, ma'am…) The closing price on May 30, 2007 recorded in city records is … $1.325mm.
(Pause. Sink in. Review numbers. Proceed.)
WTF??
So now the people who bought it on May 30 want to sell it. The people who bought it on May 30 for $1.325mm want to sell it for $2.125mm. Actually, it may be more accurate to say that the people who bought it on May 30 for $1.325mm say they want to sell it now for $2.125mm.
Enough with just-the-facts … this freaks me out. This totally freaks me out.
$2,125,000
(1,325,000)
$ 800,000 = 60% of May 30 price
(OK, I will stop with that.)
if building history is a guide
I was so intrigued by the differences between #2C and the other two units then available (#2A and #3B) that I did an extended review of past sales data in this 40-unit coop the next day. Here is the highlight of that review:
The confirmed 2006 sales and their estimated sizes were:
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8B
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June 29
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$1.2mm
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1325'
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10B
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July 12
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$1.505mm
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1400'
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10D
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Sept 20
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$1.21mm
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1180'
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6B
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Oct 18
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$1.156mm
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1325'
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First, all four of these substantially overlapped with the efforts to sell 3B and 2A over the last year, and the last two may have actively overlapped with 2C as well. That is a lot of inventory in a 40-unit building. And note that the agents for the three "B" line lofts could not agree on the size of that line.
(From Nov 9, 2006: more rich data and 'comps' / 718 Broadway sales history)
Since then, #2A has been taken off the market (said to be "1,500 sq ft", it started at $1.595mm in September 2005 and ended 2 years later, unsold at $1.299mm); #3B found a buyer and signed a contract 2 weeks ago (ask was $1.24mm for "1,400 sq ft", after being on the market since September 2006, through 2 different firms); and #10C seems to have been in contract since April without closing yet (offered in January at $1.25mm for "1,400 sq ft"; that deal may be in trouble).
If building history is a guide, there are only 2 units that have closed above $1,000/ft (3 if you count #2C's sale at $1.325mm if the "1,200 sq ft" is right) and none that have closed anywhere near $1,300/ft, as offered for #3C now if "1,600 sq ft" is right , let alone nearly $1,800/ft if #2C is really only "1,200 sq ft".
You still with me? Here's the punch line…
they just might get it
The funny thing about (truly) unique apartments is that they set their own values. If a buyer with taste and bucks finds that this museum-quality-minimalism suits them and they have the bucks, they may pay whatever they have to get the seller to agree to sell it to them. 'Comps' be damned, as (truly) unique lofts have (essentially) no comps. Just whatever a willing buyer is willing to pay that the seller will agree to. (They won't get a large mortgage, but that's a different story.)
Now, I seriously doubt that there is a buyer for this loft at $2.125mm or environs. And it is very likely that any sale will take a long time, because there are so few potential buyers for this spectacular-but-unlivable-(for-many)-space at any price. (As the mother-daughter team Eunice and Stephanie Turso of Custom Brokers -- who marketed this lovely loft for 9 months before getting a contract signed seven months ago -- found out.)
8 million stories
I wonder - of course - why the May 30 buyer is a November seller. Change in family situation? Somebody coughing quietly in the other bed? Delusions? No idea, but very curious….
back to the beginning
This whole thing really freaks me out.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Nov. 6, 2007 - 48 Great Jones goes to drama school / major price drop
this one is real
In going through my junk mail folder today (the place all those agent e-flyers about "exciting" new listings, "unique" apartments, "dramatic" price changes are supposed to go), my eye caught on two (out of 300+ since Sunday).
One headline was for a "dramatic" price reduction that turned out to be anything but (a $26k price drop off a listing price of $869k - feh!). That agent needs to get out more, live a little, experience some drama.
The other was a familiar address, as I blogged about the 2d floor at 48 Great Jones Street when it got the Curbed treatment back in August. The headline was "significant" price reduction. Tom Cooper at Sotheby's did not lie.
7 figures is significant, it is dramatic, it is … large
This loft had been offered at $5.57mm, but dropped late last week to $4.495mm - that is $1,075,000.00 for those of you without handy access to a calculator.
I went through the long price history of this unit when I touched on it in August. Here is one excerpt from that earlier post:
This listing is relatively new with Sotheby's, but not new to the market, as it is now on its third firm since June 2006. It started then at $6.85mm and bounced down to the $5.3mm that [Danielle] Wiedemann started it at in June this year before raising it to $5.57mm after four weeks on the market.
Even fully renovated lofts have not commanded much of a premium in this building. #3F was said to be "fully renovated" (with marketing pictures to back that up) when it closed in January at $2.4mm for its "2,700 sq ft". #6R is now pushing for a premium, but that is described as "[m]asterfully renovated with no expense spared, [a] gorgeous triple-mint loft offer[ing] approximately 2600 square feet of unique luxury living", and asking $3.125mm - barely $1,150/ft.
Dropping a million bucks off the price of a "4,100 sq ft" loft is a big step in the right direction, correcting the imbalance between this one (which has to need a lot of work) and #6R, which has not sold yet at $1,150/ft (asking $3.125mm for "2,600 sq ft").
basta?
I tend to think that is still not enough of a spread, but I must applaud the heft of a seven-figure price drop.
(Curiosity here: Danielle Wiedemann had this listing at Sotheby's; now it is Tom Cooper's. Same listing number. Wonder what happened….)
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 31, 2007 - re-setting values at 57 Bond / there goes the neighborhood
gotta appreciate the appreciation
#4E at 57 Bond Street is new to the market this week, asking $3.45mm and $1,712/mo (condo) for "2,125 sq ft" in a 2003 condo conversion that sold as new four years ago for (probably) less than half that. (I don't see a closed price for this unit when it was first bought in October 2003, but #2E sold 3 months later for $1.563mm.)
That is what having brand new brand name neighbors will do for you!
new neighbors are good neighbors
Since this building was converted in 2003, the new kids on the block that have driven prices very far very fast are 40 Bond and 48 Bond. 40 Bond is the 31-unit Ian Schrager project with "five star hotel services and amenities", in which original units can still be had for as little as $3.5mm for "1,269 sq ft" (#6D) or as much as $9.95mm for "3,288 sq ft' (#9A). 48 Bond is the smaller (17 unit) Deborah Berke designed project that has a "3,141 sq ft" full floor unit left, asking $5.15mm.
The record high sale for the building to date was PH-E (only "1,470 sq ft", but with a terrace of "1,134 sq ft"), which sold in July for $2.595mm, with finishes that sound a lot like those in #4E. (As history, the other penthouse sold through the developer in May 2004 for $1.675mm, with "1,704 sq ft" and a "966 sq ft" terrace.)
too soon in 2005
Two "W" line units (also 2,125 sq ft) were offered for sale before the hot new neighbors were in, at (then) historically high prices, but came off the market after not selling. #2W took a brief shot at a killing in March 2005 for $3.2mm, while #4W more seriously probed the market from January to May 2005 at $2.75mm.
This short block on this short street just off the Bowery has had one of the sharpest jolts of high-end development and pricing of any similar block that I can think of.
Maybe they will add pix and a floor plan to the #4E PruDE listing before too long, but they are starting with open houses immediately.
Open House Thursday Nov 1 from 12 - 2
Open House Sunday Nov 4 from 12 - 1:30
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 28, 2007 - big price bump on long + winding road at 704 Broadway
zigging and zagging for 32 months
Any $700k price increase on a loft should catch my eye; the more so if the loft has been on the market for a while.
The 2d floor at 704 Broadway is a big one: "5,000 sq ft" for (as of this weekend) $5.795mm and (only) $2,647/mo (condo), offered through Holly Parker of PruDE by a "developer who has thought of every luxury detail" and many exclamation points.
Yes, it does look very luxurious, and certainly is massive. But the most interesting thing to me (not having any buyer at the moment at this price point) is the history. (Are you sitting down?)
Feb 2005: $5.495mm
June 2005: $5.8mm
March 2006: $6.2mm
May 2006: $5.95mm
Dec 2006: $5.75mm
Feb 2007: $5.499mm
May 2007: $4.995mm
Oct 2007: $5.695mm
It is exhausting just reading that history; imagine Ms. Parker's and the developer's exhaustion in marketing….
No kidding - this place is lovely. 14 foot barrel-vaulted ceilings, "monumental Ionic" columns (presumably, cast iron), floating walls, 2 Viking stoves, etc, etc, etc. There are about 46 feet of huge windows overlooking Broadway, but with NYU buildings across the street it is not clear how much light there is.
In looking at city records, it is not clear whether "the developer" still owns it or not. This unit traded in September 2004 for $3.375mm (did it have the luxury then??); the 3d floor cleared in March 2006 for $5.93mm (no wonder they are frustrated on the 2d floor).
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 26, 2007 - Broadway from Houston to Grace / 4 Sunday open houses
(remember to check the agent websites Sunday morning to see if open house is still on)
$2.195mm and $2,100/mo for "2,700 sq ft"; so many feet, so few windows (3, with Puck Building views); at 22 feet wide, this is a very long Long-and-Narrow
on market 6 weeks
Open House Sunday Oct 28 from 12:30 - 2 PM
$3.25mm and $2,255/mo for "2,700 sq ft"; I profiled it on Oct 4 when it was so new there were no details, no pix, no floor plan on PruDE's site (684 Broadway has a new one), where I provided some building history; now that the full listing is up, It looks pretty sweet, with great light and clearing the Great Jones buildings across the street
Open House Sunday Oct 28 from 12 - 2 PM
$2.5mm and $2,449/mo for "3,050 sq ft" of "tremendous potential", 1 bathroom and a very curious price history ($2.35mm in August 2006; contract signed in December after price drop to $2.1mm; board approved in February, but back on the market five weeks ago at $2.5mm); N.B., not for PETA members; footprint is very long and very narrow
Open House Sunday Oct 28 from 12 - 1:30 PM
808 Broadway #2J
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Oct. 4, 2007 - 684 Broadway has a new one
#7E is asking $3.25mm and $2,255/mo for "2,600 sq ft". No details, no pix, no floor plan yet
on PruDE's site, but when it hits it should be here. [fixed the link; THX
Larry]
Early in the year, #5E (in primitive, needs-a-complete-build-out condition) sold for $2.495mm (a $5,000 discount to the
asking price), while #3E was done ("renovated to perfection", in broker-babble; check
the pix) and sold for the $3.1mm ask. #7E gets even more of the sky over the low buildings across Great Jones Street. If it is also done, this is a very
reasonable asking price.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Sep. 24, 2007 - 19 Bond found its lover / in contract in 5 weeks
Unit 2A at 19 Bond Street was new to market in mid-August at
about $1,000/ft, when I asked (Aug 19)
Bond, 19 Bond / new loft listing asks "got
love"?
My comment then was that it
sounded like a gut renovation:
a
"quintessential NYC loft" with uber-loft neighbors at #40 and #48.
"1,600 sq ft" corner, with 13 foot ceilings, one kitchen and one
bath, this can be a "dream home" if only someone brought the "right
amount of love". Love plus the $1.65mm asking price ($1,019/mo in
common charges and real estate taxes). Sounds like a gut renovation
to me....
Whether they need to renovate or
not, someone with the "right amount of love" emerged fairly quickly
(an offer was accepted in 2 weeks), but the lawyers (and the
holiday? or just 'stuff') kept the contract from being signed until
late last week. Still no floor plan, though.
There is no doubt that some buyers
are out there, willing and able to sign contracts, despite the
liquidity issues and financial market jitters.
(C) Sandy Mattingly
2007
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Sep. 19, 2007 - hope falls eternal? 716 Bway is back
seasonality is so macro
I am not a big believer in the common acceptance that seasonal tides are especially important in the Manhattan market, as the micro needs of Seller A or Buyer B are much more relevant than what The Entire Market Typically Does At This Time Of Year. Because there may be fewer sales at one point does not mean there are no sales. (d'oh)
But celebrating a new year in September is not exclusively a Jewish thing, as many people in the Manhattan market (sellers, buyers, agents even) view Labor Day as the beginning of a period in which to get serious. (Even in jittery times.)
Anecdotally, more apartments come to market just after Labor Day than in several earlier months. Especially at levels at which people need real money, August is perceived as a slow-if-not-dead month. Which is why you see lofts that take a breather before Labor Day, especially if they are a bit ... tired.
welcome back, did you get the birthday card?
Which is a long introduction to the fact that the 2d floor at 716 Broadway is back on the market as of yesterday, having been taken off the market temporarily on July 30. Welcome back.
how tired?
This is a ... mature ... listing. They misperceived The Market at the start, coming out in June 2006 at $2.95mm for "2,400 sq ft" (plus "500 sq ft" of outdoor space in the back) and $1,800/mo. An adjustment in October 2006 to $2.65mm (of a scale that should have gotten attention) has held, but has not (yet) been successful.
It makes a lot of sense for this loft to have taken six weeks off to try to come back with a bit more freshness and energy. The new-to-market loft buyers may not be aware that this listing has already had a birthday; those that have seen it on the web but not in person may take the opportunity to reconsider it.
good and bad, Long-and-Narrow
This is a Long-and-Narrow with a lot of things going for it: 13 foot ceilings, the outdoor space, views of Washington Square one block to the west, "classic loft" elements (tin ceiling, exposed brick and pipes, fireplace). Did I mention the outdoor space?
It suffers from being on the second floor overlooking busy busy Broadway at what sometimes feels like the middle of NYU (though the 4 front windows are "sound-proof"). It suffers from being that classic Long-and-Narrow with a long way between the front and back windows (although it does have plumbing on both long sides). It probably suffers because it has had that birthday ("maturity" not being a virtue in a listing).
It probably suffers from a surfeit of dollars.
Apart from the outdoor space, the fireplace and their current layouts, the 2d floor is very similar to the 3rd floor (only 1.5 baths but 2 real bedrooms and a brag-about-renovated-cook's kitchen on 3). The 3rd floor sold in May 2006 for $1.85mm (pix and floor plan still available on the web), not so easily (4+ months between listing and contract). The 2d floor was brought to market six weeks later at a 50% premium.
how much is that theory in the window?
Of course, all lofts are 'unique', so there may be some theory to explain why the 2nd floor is more valuable than the 3rd. But 50% is a lot of theory.
Can't tell if this seller wants to sell or just likes "selling"....
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Aug. 23, 2007 - whole floor at 48 Great Jones gets the Curbed treatment
lofty loft or lofty loft price?
The 2d floor is a huge space – “4,500 sq ft” by the estimate of Danielle Wiedemann at Sothebys – and a huge opportunity, at the right price. She does not say much in the listing about the finishes or fixtures, so my working assumption is that they are not worth bragging about (pix are consistent with this assumption).
to and fro, and fro and to
The layout is very … err … peculiar, which makes me think it grew organically from the usage of a long-time owner. There’s a large photo studio and darkroom, which leads only to a bedroom or the outside corridor. There are 3 full bathrooms (and one half) none of which are in the master bedroom. You get to the second bedroom either directly from the outside corridor or through a “sitting room” and (some other space? a closet??). As drawn, there are only two closets on the whole floor. It looks as though there are four ways to enter the loft from the main corridor, and the main corridor is awfully large for a one-unit-on-this-floor loft.
So, with all the to-ing and fro-ing involved with this layout, and with the absence of bragging about this space as built out, I see the market for this space as people with the need for a huge space and the means to gut it and rebuild. So asking $5.57mm for “4,500 sq ft” seems a stretch to me, if the buyer is going to spend another million-plus for renovation.
history, history, history
This listing is relatively new with Sothebys, but not new to the market, as it is now on its third firm since June 2006. It started then at $6.85mm and bounced down to the $5.3mm that Wiedemann started it at in June this year before raising it to $5.57mm after four weeks on the market.
Even fully renovated lofts have not commanded much of a premium in this building. #3F was said to be “fully renovated” (with marketing pictures to back that up) when it closed in January at $2.4mm for its “2,700 sq ft”. #6R is now pushing for a premium, but that is described as “[m]asterfully renovated with no expense spared, [a] gorgeous triple-mint loft offer[ing] approximately 2600 square feet of unique luxury living”, and asking $3.125mm – barely $1,150/ft.
The owner of the 2d floor is asking over $1,200/ft, the gulf between this (apparent) condition and “masterfully renovated” notwithstanding.
© Sandy Mattingly 2007
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Nov. 8, 2006 - more rich data and ‘comps’ / 718 Broadway sales history
4 completed sales this year help with ‘comps’
With three lofts offered for sale, four sold between June and October 2006, three sold in 2005 and two sold in 2004, the 40-unit 718 Broadway may be undergoing something of a generational shift.
a generational shift?
The four very recent sales can provide additional context for looking at the three currently on the market [see the recent comparing lofts and lofts ain’t so easy] and also illustrate how values differ in the same building, in the same line.
The confirmed 2006 sales and their estimated sizes were:
8B June 29 $1.2mm 1325’
10B July 12 $1.505mm 1400’
10D Sept 20 $1.21mm 1180’
6B Oct 18 $1.156mm 1325’
First, all four of these substantially overlapped with the efforts to sell 3B and 2A over the last year, and the last two may have actively overlapped with 2C as well. That is a lot of inventory in a 40-unit building. And note that the agents for the three “B” line lofts could not agree on the size of that line.
I do not recall having seen any of these four sales while they were active but the agent notes still in our system provide some information about their condition.
some information about their condition
10B was renovated 2005 and went for the best price. In fact the price is so good (more than $100k over ask) that the renovation must have been very nice.
6B was said to be a gut renovation, while 10D was a “stunning“ renovation with “meticulous” attention to detail.
8B, in contrast, had a kitchen that needed upgrading but was in “move-in” condition (they didn’t brag about a renovation, so there could not have been one recently).
The “B” line looks over the parking lot that fronts on Lafayette and there should be little difference in light among the 6th, 8th and 10th floors, and little difference in views (the buildings on either side of the parking lot are 6 and 10 stories, and the buildings across Lafayette are no more than 6 stories, but higher is always better).
major differences, but in an efficient market??
Perhaps the virtually simultaneous $305k difference between 10B and 8B is accounted for by the renovation plus the extra view, but the renovated 6B still went for less than 8B. This is not an exact science….
10D is smaller, but had that stunning renovation, earning its parity with 8D.
So what?
Buyers with easy access to each of these contemporaneous listings in the same building – listings that were different in size, level of finishes and (possibly) light or views – established the market price for these units. Those marketing conditions were as close to an efficient loft market as you could expect in Manhattan.
So one “identical” unit (at least an identical floor plan) sold for 205 more than another two floors below and another four floors below that had also been renovated – evidently in a bidding war.
I wonder if any disappointed 10B bidders bought 10D or 6B, and if they bid on 2A or 3C….
© Sandy Mattingly
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Nov. 7, 2006 - comparing lofts and lofts ain’t so easy / 718 Broadway as lab
rich data in one building but little comparability
I saw three lofts on the same building on Sunday, two of which are a little different from each other; the third was so different to the two as to be INcomparable in many ways. Which lead me to thinking about how much easier it is to compare units in an apartment building than units in a loft building.
718 Broadway (south of Astor Place) is either in Noho or the Village, depending on one’s geographic sensibilities. Regardless, it sits solidly in The Greater NYU Metro Area on one of the busiest streets in the city, with pedestrians, shoppers, buses and trucks, and a subway rumbling along Broadway.
a classic loft building
It was converted 25 years ago into legal loft residences (don’t know its prior history) as is in many ways a classic loft building. Footprint is small, with 4 units per floor (10 residential floors over a commercial space). Ceilings are high; hallways are narrow, hardwood, dark in places and (let’s just say) not overdone; double door-double buzzer security; lobby is nothing special; elevator is typical; and a finished roof deck. Front windows (at least) are both big and rather porous for sound.
#2A and #3B are -- to my eye – both in “good original condition”, meaning that they both could use an upgrade (2A especially). They are said to be of similar size (about 1500 and 1400 sq ft), but they are rather different. Both are set up with only one “bedroom” area, but in #2A it is a raised platform with half-walls, while with 3B it is a mezzanine loft (with 6 ft+ head clearance), open to the rest of the unit below. 2A has a very odd “box” with a second sleeping platform on top of it where the former freight elevator had been (odd, as I say). Both have original flooring, which could be revitalized. Neither has a distinguished kitchen, both have some nooks and crannies, but 3B is very quiet while 2A is … not.
2A is not quiet because its three windows look at Broadway from the second floor (and they are not thermopane windows). 3B is quiet because it sits over a parking lot that fronts on Lafayette.
different lofts for different buyers at different prices
While they may appeal to some of the same buyers, 3B is much more likely to appeal to someone who does not want to do that much work, or someone who needs two bedrooms. 3B has quiet, but presents the risk down the road that the parking lot will be developed. 2A is clearly closely involved with life on Broadway. In both cases, the sleeping areas are removed from the windows, which is where the air conditioning is.
3B is asking ‘only’ $1.175mm for its (estimated) 1400 s ft, while 2A is asking $1.399m for what is said to be 1500 sq ft (though some of it is unusable as it is). Both have some history: 2A has been on the market for more than a year (it started at $1.595mm), while 3B has technically been on since September, but has been on and off the market pretty constantly for two years.
While they have some similarities, I don’t know that the sale of one would have much predictive value for the sale of the other. Certainly, all the Corcoran agents involved feel that they are different enough at $1.175mm and 1.395mm.
meanwhile, a million miles away in 2C…
2C, in contrast, is as unlike 2A and 3B as can be. Once you close the door in 2C you would never think you were in the same building with the other two lofts.
Please, please, please look at the pictures, and then understand that – if anything --- the photos do not do justice to this space. This is a white-on-white museum quality minimalist renovation. While this unit looks over the same parking lot as 3B, I suspect that possible development has nothing to do with value or with the owner’s enjoyment of the space. Note the window shears – everything about this space relates inward, so what is outside the window will only detract from the space.
I am not saying I could live there (no way). I am not saying there are many people who can live there. I just hope that there are enough who can and that someone who can has the money and the opportunity to make a deal with these owners.
The care taken to eliminate detailing in closets, cabinets, and appliances is extreme. The walls ‘float’ off the floor the way museum walls do not touch the floor; the kitchen wall not only does that, but flares out at the bottom, while the upper surface of the cabinets also undulates.
I have no idea who could buy this amazing space
How unlivable is this space for conventional tastes? There are two sleeping areas in the upper mezzanine, separated (as I recall) by a few plastic containers (I am not doing them justice) but otherwise open to below. A low cough in one bed is heard distinctly in the other.
This has been on the market ‘only’ since June and has come down to $1.495mm for what they say is 1200 sq ft. Having criticized agents who were selling more than 100 “unique” lofts a while back [unique ain’t what it used to be] I can say that this one is ‘very’ unique (remember, in my business “unique” has many modifiers). Unique properties have fewer potential buyers, so this may be on the market for a while regardless of price. BTW, price is $1.475mm and mother-daughter team Eunice and Stephanie Turso of Custom Brokers do not use “unique” in marketing this loft, bless their hearts.
The sale of this one will have no effect on the sale of the other two, and vice versa.
oh-oh, agents with rulers…
2A is said to have “towering 14 foot ceilings”, while down the hall 2C claims the “highest ceiling height in the building – 12.7 ft”; the 3B agent measured there at a “soaring” 12’ 9”.
numerous number anomalies?
The quoted maintenance for these three lofts don’t fit their claimed footprints, either. Something is wrong with this data:
2A 1500’ $1187/mo
2C 1200’ $1275/mo
3B 1400’ $1292/mo
open houses again on Sunday Nov 12:
3B from 2 – 3:30
2A from 2:30 - 4
.
© Sandy Mattingly 2006
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on matters of interest to Manhattan coop or condo loft apartment dwellers, buyers, sellers, and others, especially about New York City real estate
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