Let the Good Times Roll opens very slow... Columbus Business First poll about what should be done with City Center Mall.
The largest vote 42% is for:
"Turn it into a mix of a few retailers and a lot of restaurants and entertainment offerings. "
No mention of a casino.... The current Columbus CEO Magazine has an article on putting a casino in City Center Mall.
"The 700,000-square-foot City Center mall has everything— three floors, adequate parking and a lot of space—that make it a perfect location for the city’s first casino. But bringing gambling to Ohio—let alone Columbus—won’t be easy."
Mayor Coleman is against it... Governor Taft is opposed to it. Fascinating article...nothing but table of contents type stuff online for CEO magazine... I saw the cover and 'borrowed' the copy from the lobby of the office Sunday. There's a breakdown of who is for it, whose against it... in the business community, in the downtown community, in the tourism industry and in government... I had to read it. Saw it and said "huh?" Ohio doesn't have casino gambling..."
I knew Ohio is going to vote about slot machines at race tracks but Issue 3 also would authorize, semi authorize (Cuyahoga County would still have to vote?) two casinos in Cleveland???? Slick to sneak Casino gambling in that way?
What do you think ? Should City Center be turned into a Casino?
Good morning,Maureen. Levy Three on the Ohio Ballot offers slot machines at 7 racetracks and two more locations in Cleveland. My understanding is that one of those locations is in 'The Flats' along the Cuyahoga River. I vote yes. People who gamble are currently taking their money out of State. Or they are playing the lottery. The fate of lottery monies has been as cloudy as it comes. Of course Taft is opposed to Levy 3 because he or any governor can't get his hands on the money to divert it from where it's supposed to go. That is why the 'trust fund' formula for the money collected if Levy 3 passes, is a better idea. It will be money looked after by the Ohio Board of Regents, NOT politicians. There is an estimation of several thousand new jobs in my area (Cleveland) if this Levy passes. We can't afford to let gambling money go out of state. I don't believe bringing the gambling money 'home' will have a huge affect on those with gambling problems. All I have to do is stand in line at a local convenience store to know that that kind of an addiction is already being satisfied in Ohio. When they buy lottery tickets. And the money from the lottery tickets isn't looked after by the Board of Regents. Anyway, this is a GREAT topic for a poll and for discussion I'm so glad you have this on your blog today! I'll check back later and see what everyone else is saying.
Thanks for the comment Carole.. and the vote I assume in the poll. Issue 3 Proposed Constitutional Amendment - Gambling and college scholarships - Learn & Earn To adopt Section 12 of Article XV of the Constitution of the State of Ohio. This amendment to the Constitution would: Permit up to 31,500 slot machines at seven horse racing tracks and at two Cleveland non-track locations. Permit expanded gaming in the four Cuyahoga County locations if approved by the county's voters. Distribute the revenues as follows: 55% to the slot and casino owners and operators. 30% to the Board of Regents for college scholarships and grants to eligible students and administration of the program. The remaining revenues to be divided among local governments, race tracks for purse money, gambling addiction services, and The administration of the Gaming Integrity Commission comprised of five members appointed by the governor and the majority legislative leaders. The moneys provided by this amendment are to supplement and not supplant existing and future constitutional obligations to post-secondary education and local governments.
Does "permit expanded gaming" mean casinos??? I knew it was 9 locations, I did not get the distinction until I read the article in Columbus CEO Magazine that two in Cleveland are not race tracks and that it is a total of 4 locations in Cleveland that may "permit expanded gaming."
There was a lot in the magazine article about money leaving the state and going to Michigan, riverboats, Indiana... I wondered why Cinci wouldn't be pushing for gambling to be legalized there.
Nice assessment carolecohen! That's exactly what's going on. The politicians are aftraid they will lose lottery business to the slot machines. If you actually read the proposed amendment, you will see there is no way they can redirect the funds. The only legitimate argument against this issue is from people opposed to gambling. The unfortunate truth is that Ohio residents don't get to make that decision anymore. Indiana, West Virginia and Michigan have made it for us. I watched a debate Monday where the opposition spokesman agreed that Ohio residents gambled $1 billion in those states last year! Imagine how many tax dollars they collected, whether it be for scholarships, or whatever. By the way, I also read that part of the West Virginia law requires that at least 80% of the casino employees must have lived in West Virginia for 1 year or more. They're simply sticking it to us! I'm voting yes.
Thanks cmh, and interesting info regarding the West Virginia laws - they are actually predicting (I think this is right) 3500 new jobs in Northeast Ohio if the Issue passes and two 'off race track' locations can be established here. I have to be sure to not call them casinos because they will be locations for slots. But everyone seems to agree that a casino would be a logical next step. Maureen, I was wondering that too, good point, I wonder why Cincy wouldn't be trying to lobby for a location. Maybe they are holding out for a casino?
Thanks for the comments Carole and CMH1234. I did not realize West Virginia has gambling although the Columbus CEO article said we are surrounded by states with gambiling and the casinos are right on our borders. I will have to reread the article. I got the impression that the "locations for slots" were casinos from what I read but then again... I was shocked to see the cover story about City Center becoming a casino since Ohio has no casinos.
Maureen - I attached a couple of links below to the Plain Dealer article and exhibits from last Saturday. They do a great job of showing where the casinos/slot facilities are currently located and proposed. Kentucky is the only state around Ohio that doesn't have either casinos or slots, but they are definitely talking about it. Mountaineer is the largest facility in West Virginia. I read they get 80% of their business from Ohio and Pennsylvania residents. Pennsylvania just approved slot machines in a fashion very similar to Ohio, so now they are setting their sites on Ohio residents more than ever. Cincinnati did try to get a downtown location, but the owner of one of the Indiana river boats owns one of the race tracks in Ohio, and they didn't want to create too much competition. As a trade off, a portion of the proceeds from the slots designated for economic development will go to Cincinnati. The opponents call it a bribe for support, but I think the City officials did a good job of looking out for Cincinnati. If we're going to have gambling, any proposal is going to involve negotiations like that, but the opponents have definitely latched on trying to put a negative spin on it. At the end of the day, I don't think Ohio is ready to go all out on casinos. I figure that this is the first step. If this doesn't adequately protect Ohio from the surrounding states, then we will take the appropriate steps in the future. Either way, I just hate seeing the money leave the state. The only reason they brought up City Center in that article is because it's failing and many people have thrown that idea around, but it's never been serious. I read the article, and I agreed with the part that said the casino shouldn't be the main draw in a downtown area, otherwise you get what Detroit has. If they put it in the Arena District, or somewhere similar, then it is only one part of a lot of entertainment in one area. Regardless, I don't think we will really get to debate those issues until the second chapter of gambling in Ohio. I hope this passes. Here are the links:
http://www.cleveland.com/casino/wide/index.ssf?/casino/wide/slots1021.htmlhttp://www.cleveland.com/casino/wide/index.ssf?/casino/wide/slots21021.htmlhttp://www.cleveland.com/casino/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1161420016169250.xml&coll=2
Gosh CMH thanks. I was shocked to see the cover of CEO Columbus. I must have been living under a rock re: gambling. I had just done the poll on Columbus Business First (or is it Business First Columbus.. I can never remember) poll about what to do with City Center when I saw the magazine lying on a table in our offlice lobby. I never would have guessed that KY would approve gambling. I think of Kentucky being so Bible Belt but they've always had horse races...and whiskey. I go to the Detroit area a lot but have never been to any of the Casinos. Parts of downtown Detroit were pretty run down before the casinos. Thanks for the Cleveland Plain Dealer Articles.
Maureen,
The only reason Kentucky is considering it is for the same reasons it's on our ballot. They're starting to get surrounded by it as well. I just read an article yesterday that said 35 out of 50 states allow slot machines or casinos. I think they realize it's not going to turn back at this point. I really paid attention to it because I hate the fact that our government totally ignored the problem with school funding. Even after it was deemed unconstitutional. Great leadership we have! With all of the debate, I was curious about whether or not the money they were offering in this issue would actually go to education. I read it, and it seems pretty tight. There are debates on how much revenue they would bring in, but the opponents say it's only going ot be $324 million and the proponents say $853 million. I'd take either one if it actually went to college scholarships. Honestly, I think the political leaders are afraid they will lose lottery business to the slot machines. If that happens, their budget will get tighter and ultimately they will be forced to reform school funding. We all know they don't want to touch that. I honestly wish we could get rid of all the casinos except Vegas and Atlantic City, but it's just not going to happen, so this issue is like the lesser of two evils. I hope it wins.
With all due respect to others' enthusiasm, I do not support Issue 3. I've been counting down all the reasons why Issue 3 is the wrong mechanism for bringing money to higher education or slots and casinos into Ohio (which, in general I don't support, but certainly not in the form of Issue 3).
Nice to see people really thinking about it. I hope you'll visit my blog and read some of the reasons that other folks are opposed to Issue 3.
CMH thanks again for the comments. Jill your "You can start here." the here link gives me an error... but I was on your blog reading earlier today.... Last look at my Poll it looked like it is split right down the middle. The poll is about a casino in downtown Columbus NOTabout Issue 3...I keep forgetting that myself. I am going to have to decide how to vote on Issue 3 years before City Center going casino could ever become a real issue. Thanks for the comment Jill and I will go back and read your blog. Maureen
Oopsie! Guess you could say I've got a bit of tunnel vision on Issue 3 - sorry to go off topic. The link did work for me just now - Blogger isn't the most stable of platforms I know. I'll be sure to check out your blog more often - especially if i'm heading to Columbus.
Jill you did not get us off the pie in the sky topic of a casino at City Center Mall in Columbus. We've been talking Issue 3 even if that is not what I wrote about in my blog today or what the poll is about. Which is fine. It is a reflex action as that is a real issue. Thanks for your comments and I will check out your blog again. I have noticed the name before when I was searching for Ohio blogs. Maureen
Good morning, I read Jill's blog post and it was helpful to people to see some of the language to be used by the Board of Regents. I really only have one comment about that language: I read it as saying that students have to be on a college track high school program. Back in the day when I was in school, it was called college prep. There is other language written by them that states that once they are enrolled, they have to meet certain academic standards - which obviously would also have to be met in order to get accepted by a college or university. So I don't really see it as vague language. Also the current or future student issue; if we are talking about immediately implementing this program then current students would be the ones considered for the firs applicants? At least that is how I read it.
And I think we have to discuss Issue 3 because if it doesn't pass then there is no need to worry about whether or not a casino is a good idea in Columbus.
CMH GREAT info regarding Cincinnati, thank you. And I agree, it seems like a reasonable compromise.
You are right Carole... we do have to discuss Issue 3 in order to discuss any future for gambling in Ohio... That's why I invited Carol in Cleveland to my Columbus blog to see the poll I was so proud of yesterday!!! Thanks so much for stopping by both yesterday and today, Carole. I am usually very reluctant to discuss politics... Maureen
Nice discussion here. I don't know think I have as charitable a view of the language as Carolecohen does, but I appreciate reading about how others interpret it. Perhaps I should add that part of my issue with the language is my sense that it doesn't reflect what the Ohio Learn and Earn proponents advertise. They oversell what it will do and who it will do it for. That's not okay with me - to oversell in order to get people interested.
If it were presented as you interpret it, Carole, and I think that your interpretation isn't far off, I believe OLE proponents would fear that far too few people would think that it would do anything for their families or children, but rather only help those who already are on track and capable of getting academic merit grants, which the proposed language says this money would be.
Again, happy to see more conversation and debate around the issue. It can get very myopic at times.
It is great to see debate here, thanks for your comment Jill. I am not political. I don't like controversy. I have blogged for 14 months and have never mentioned anything political before.... call me a chicken! I am hoping Carole is going to put something about Issue 3 on her blog. With a poll? I love polls....
Maureen
Hi Everyone! No Maureen, I did not place a poll, but what I did do was to direct people here. I thought it was better to just have all of our information, yours, Jills, cmh's, mine, all in one place. I did summarize a bit on my blog. So I'm hoping if anyone does decide they want to comment they do so here! : 0 )
And Maureen I really love what Jill said....reading about and discussing varying viewpoints is fabulous. I'm a firm believer that rarely are things as black and white as people try to make them. So I like to forray out into the world of discussing politics. Call me crazy lol. Next week I will have a blog and maybe be brave enough to do a poll, but it will be on negative campaign ads. I don't know about you, but the only reason I want the election to end is the tiresome run of negative ads on almost all sides by all candidates who should be ashamed to have their mugs and voice at the end saying I am ________ and I approved this message. So stay tuned lol.
Jill, I know you are opposed to Issue 3, but I wanted to offer any information I can and join this discussion. I work with OH Learn & Earn and would like to make a few points if I may. We aren't trying to hide anything and it is very apparent from our messaging that the scholarship program is funded from slot machine proceeds at 9 venues in OH. I have seen a lot of confusion and incorrect information out there about the Learn & Earn program and would urge everyone to take a look at our website; the text of the amendment and the background information before making a decision.
http://www.ohiolearnandearn.com/
In addition, we are faced with dishonest opposition from the likes of Senator Voinovich who is using Issue 3 in order to get out the vote. He explicitly stated this in a letter to State Central Committee members;
I truly believe that the Learn & Earn is a great idea to address the problems of college affordability, the flight of Ohio's children to out-of-state schools, and keeping the money that Ohioans spend on gambling in Ohio. The fate of issue 3 aside, gambling will not disappear and this money should stay in state to fund scholarships, local economic development, and gambling addiction services. Again, there is plenty of
Carole I made it over to your blog, good entry...thanks for the mention. Wow someone from Learn and Earn on my humble little blog, I am impressed. Thanks for the info Drew. Maureen
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